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Kobe Bryant interview yields nothing Heat fans should be upset with

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Something that we should all be expecting and even accepting as a certainty is that there is going to be a ton of Heat-bashing as we get closer to training camp.  This is something that is going to be coming from all angles, regardless of the source.  As basketball becomes relevant again there are going to be more and more stories finding things wrong with the Heat, their roster and the way they went about making that roster. 

Friday afternoon on ESPN's ‘Jim Rome is Burning', a pair of Los Angeles Lakers got the chance to take over the show.  Derek Fisher sat down and interviewed his teammate Kobe Bryant on a bevy of topics, and I bet you can guess what came up pretty quickly. 

Kobe was asked about LeBrons process of leaving Cleveland and ‘taking his talent to South Beach', and if that would be something he could ever do.  He started by saying how he and James are friends and that he didn't want to ‘take any part of that', regarding the way LeBron left Cleveland.

Star-divide

Bryant did a good job of dodging the ‘would you have done what LeBron did' question, which in itself is totally bogus because its asking Kobe to put himself in a situation he has never been in, and to go back in time a couple of years to when he was a free agent.

I'll be honest, when I first heard about this interview I expected there to be a bit more ‘juiciness' to what Bryant had to say.  He said all the right things about LeBron and the Heat.  At the end, he did make the claim that he would never play for another team, that there was a "99.9999% sure" that he'd finish his career playing for the Lakers. 

Simply because of the events that transpired this past summer (regarding the Heat), people will take that statement and turn it around as a dig on LeBron.  I didn't get that.  I think that after watching Kobe Bryant for years and years in countless interviews and things like that, if he wanted to say something about LeBron James and the Miami Heat then he would have done made it clear, even if he was trying to be vague. 

This was not him being vague; it was him just speaking about himself.  That's it.  But hey...that's just my opinion.  There are plenty of people out there who are going to want to make it into a bigger deal and turn it into Lakers vs. Heat while its still August. 

If you'd like to see the interview before making up your mind on the subject, click here.

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WE GOT BRANDON MARSHALL!!!!!
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by finzrule on Aug 29, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

a laker fan makes the first comment in a heat blog post?!

does this blog have a SCG or BXF counterpart?

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree, he wasn't bashing Lebron

but to all those fans who say that Kobe is better than Lebron (morally not basketball wise), didn’t Kobe publically demand a trade a few years back? Didn’t he openly critize teamates even single Bynum out? Lebron never did any of that. He did his time and waited until he was a FREE agent. Key word free, he was perfectly withing his rights to change teams if he wanted to.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 29, 2010 11:09 PM EDT reply actions  

One key difference...

Kobe stayed with his team. Lebron didn’t.

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark

"I don’t always celebrate, but when I do, it’s when the Lakers win championships. Stay thirsty my friends." - gen!e

by LakerAce on Aug 30, 2010 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe didn't have a choice he wasn't a FREE agent

If he was a free agent that year, there is a pretty high chance that he would have left. If you think about it they were in pretty similar situations. Teams that lacked talent around them and dissapointing early round exits. Only Lebron kept his mouth shut like he was so post to.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 30, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, Kobe could have gotten out if he wanted

He simply nixed most of the possible trades because he thought the teams were giving up too much for him.

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Aug 30, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

The situations are not similar at all.

Kobe wasn’t on a contender during those years. He was frustrated with the FO and although he could have handled it better, he remained loyal to L.A.

Lebron on the other hand, was part of a contender. The fact he still left says something about him, whether he is a free agent or not.

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark

"I don’t always celebrate, but when I do, it’s when the Lakers win championships. Stay thirsty my friends." - gen!e

by LakerAce on Aug 30, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didnt remain loyal, they put better players around him, then he became loyal.

If the Cavs added a player of Gasol’s caliber, there is a pretty good chance Lebron would have remained there as well. The best player Lebron played with on the Cavs was Mo Williams (I know he played well a few years ago) and they couldnt seem to add that championship quality #2 (Kobe has at least 4 players I would take over Williams in a chamionship run). So, Lebron left for a team that had the resources to add people around him. Obviously, there is no way to prove this, but I am just saying that Kobe may have switched teams as well if given the opportunity to be a free agent. I guess I am bias toward the Heat and you to the Lakers (Ben R is a Laker fan too). So we will have to agree to disagree.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 30, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just want to clarify that I am in no way slighting either Kobe (as a player) or the Lakers

Kobe is one of the best (if not the best) players in the league and the Lakers are the reigning champs. These two teams are clearly better that the rest and should meet in the Finals (barring injuries). Hopefully, this will lead to a great rivalry.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 30, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

This debate has been around for a while anyway.

My only point is that the Cavs didn’t need to add talent, whereas the Lakers did.

I’m hoping for a great rivalry as well. Christmas couldn’t come any sooner!

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark

"I don’t always celebrate, but when I do, it’s when the Lakers win championships. Stay thirsty my friends." - gen!e

by LakerAce on Aug 30, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

i concur

3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.

by LAL32 on Aug 30, 2010 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lebron went from a contender,

to a better situation with Wade/Bosh, three young stars all well established with a lot of good years ahead of them—what does it say about him, he is intelligent. Shaq left Orlando on a contender for what he thought would be a better situation with Lakers (no Lakers fans said anything bad about him for doing it which just shows such bias from Lakers fans saying anything bad about Lebron situation), and Lebron is loyal because he did play out his contract. People hate Kobe because he is an arrogant prick—he could not get along with Shaq when there was a chance for a run at more championships, he is aloof and is not easily approachable by media and players alike, and he got into trouble with the law, ect. All Lebron did was leave Cleveland after he finished his contract for an opportunity any great player thinking beyond their own stupid ego would take—no one man wins championships, right. Kobe has helped win five championships so I guess putting up with him was worth it, but Magic won five also and no matter his off-court behavior or whatever you hold against the guy, he was competitive and a team player from day one, easily approachable to players, fans, and media alike with his infectious personality, and just a joy to watch even for someone who has not a big Lakers’ fan.

by mjtig on Aug 31, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

if i was lebron, i would act like a dick too

"IN PAT WE TRUST"
*Now seating First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.*
THE U: DONATING TO THE NFL SINCE 1926.
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by chrislucas on Aug 31, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

nah, just the one hour special

and other douchiness over the summer

3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.

by LAL32 on Sep 1, 2010 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

calling himself "king" then leaving his kingdom. pfft. the arrogance is too much.

as our mr. tucker pointed out:

There is one caveat to all of this. From a basketball perspective, I have no problem with the fact that LeBron has chosen not to apply his talent to the pursuit of becoming the best in the game and potentially the best ever. However, from a larger perspective, I do have one problem, and it stems from the way that LeBron portrays himself.

He acts like he owns this league. He takes the entire league hostage and builds up a free agency hype that delivers the unmistakable message that he considers his free agency to be far above and beyond any other (and that includes Michael Jordan, who has been a free agent at times, as well). He declares himself the leader of Team USA, even though everyone else on the inside points to Kobe and Jason Kidd as the team’s true leaders. His opinion of himself and his importance is so overblown as to think that he deserves something no other player in history has ever had – an hour special in which the nation’s attention should be devoted to his decision; for perspective, when MJ came back from playing baseball, he did it with a two-word fax: “I’m back.” He wears tattoos and t-shirts which proclaim him the “Chosen 1,” the King. My personal favorite, guaranteed to trigger my gag reflex, is his Witness ad campaign. It’s not just the campaign; it’s that he wears the t-shirts, and even has it tattooed on his leg. When Nike does it, it’s advertising; when LeBron does it, he’s saying, “Witness me.”

Of course, all of this is just scratching the surface. This, along with far too many other examples to list, portray a clear picture of someone who wants us to be in awe of him, to witness him, even to bow down to him. And that’s the problem with this new decision, and the different priorities and values it supposedly reveals. I have no problem with LeBron deciding to follow a career path that removes him from the discussion of the best or greatest current player, let alone the greatest ever. But after he’s spent the last seven years trying to convince us that he is and will be “the man,” with the potential to be the greatest ever? Yeah, that smarts a bit. And continuing to act as though he owns the league, all while making a decision that presumably displays other priorities? Yeah, that pisses me off.

At the end of the day, I have no problem with accepting LeBron’s decision, and even celebrating his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something truly special. Those are two very valid and worthwhile goals. But accepting that decision comes with two qualifiers: First, it removes him from the conversation of greatest player, either of the present or of all time; and second, LeBron James needs to adopt an attitude commensurate with his career path.

Remember our earlier analogy? The balanced worker shouldn’t be criticized for having different goals and priorities – but he doesn’t get to act like the CEO.

So when you’re debating this issue, keep in mind that there are several distinctly different aspects of LeBron’s decision, each of which much be treated differently. The way he handled it was despicable and disgusting. The decision he made, from a basketball perspective, has forever changed how we evaluate him as a player and how we will view his legacy. That said, there’s no reason that his decision to follow a career path that removes him from all of the “Greatest Player” conversations should be seen as wrong or bad, and in fact, his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something special and unique is just as valid and worthwhile as the obsessive, ultra-competitive desire to lead one’s own team to victory (and probably more healthy). None of those perspectives stand in conflict with one another. However, he must adjust his attitude to be consistent with the player he has decided to be.

The fact that he has not – that he continues to act as though he is the greatest thing to ever happen to basketball – suggests that those alternate values and priorities that Kelly Dwyer celebrates may not be LeBron’s, at all. Maybe that’s just us, projecting the positive aspects we see in this situation on a LeBron James who really doesn’t reflect those values at all.

for the rest of the article:
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/7/20/1579005/we-cant-all-be-ceos-how-lebrons

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 1, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

ooops

block quote fail

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 1, 2010 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe is an arrogant prick...

who again ran off Shaq while they had a good shot at winning more championships because he could not be the “man”, is aloof and does not get along with most of his teammates who he thinks are beneath him and he does not trust aside from the few select, or with the media and you are giving me this guy complaining about Lebron’s t-shirts, ad campaigns, and tattoos and how these things are making this guy think Lebron is saying this to him and Lebron is insisting for him to do this or that—it is all in your head man. What great player does not have a nickname or think that they are very good if not the best? Lebron has always been a likeable guy with fans, players, and media alike. The media created the hype of free agency by asking Lebron every damn day about free agency for a good while—the hour special (is that etched in your mind, because I have already forgot about it). Lebrons goals have not changed: he wants to be the best he can be and win championships. He is still in that conversation of being one of the great player in my opinion, because I look at him and Wade as I look at Kobe/Shaq—equals (and please do not tell me you think Kobe was the “man” when Shaq was there, they were eqauls at best with Shaq actually more important IMO and Phil’s). You take Lebron out, you take Kobe out and I do not agree with either. It would have been that way if they (LBJ and Wade) are in Chicago together, NY, or Cleveland. When LBJ/Wade wins championships, they both get equal status IMO. Also, how does Lebron act like he owns the NBA? How does someone hold the league hostage? (what does that even mean?) I never said that Kobe was not a great player, my point is he is and always has been a complete asshole. Aside from Cleveland fans who are just pissed and there is no need to reason and I perfectly understand their anger (I don’t agree with it) I see a guy who played out his contract and played hard the whole time he was in Cleveland and decided to go to a better situation in terms of chances to win—Mr. T agrees with this—and see no wrong here, but even if you do, it is all about this Summer/hour special/tattoos/whatever whereas Kobe has been a complete asshole since day one.

by mjtig on Sep 1, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

There was a time when Kobe was an “arrogant prick” but you wouldn’t know. You use the media as an excuse as to why Lebron was painted in such a bad way due to his recent actions. However, you dont realize that your image of Kobe comes from that same media. If you can defend Lebron by using the “its the media’s fault” excuse shouldn’t that apply to Kobe also? I mean unless you were on some capacity in the locker room or traveled with the team how can you know all of that?

So again, I question how do you know this:

who again ran off Shaq while they had a good shot at winning more championships because he could not be the "man", is aloof and does not get along with most of his teammates who he thinks are beneath him and he does not trust aside from the few select,

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree to an extent, but..

Kobe said some things to the media that led to this image many have of him. Afterall, he demanded a trade and openly critized teamates. Look at how he talked about Bynum, and that quote you have at the end of your posts about Shaq (I am assuming he said that while they were still teamates). Although what he said may have been true, those things shouuld have been taken care of within the locker room and that is what leads me to think less of him (personally, I cant speak for anyone else). Lebron never really said anyhing wrong, he just went about his business the wrong way which can be equally as bad.

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

and I see your point but what you don’t see about that quote is to a response to Shaq’s media bashings. Up until that point Shaq had always talked shit about Kobe to the media and he finally blew up. I mean if you busted your ass harder than your supervisor and he kept laggin at his job and you had to carry the load most of the time and then he bad mouthed you behind your back and publicly how much would you put up with?

That is part of the problem by the way thatLebron never said anything. That was just as bad as not doing or saying anything.

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lebron

has been quoted as saying he can’t clone himself to make a better team and has criticized teammates play after tough losses as well, pulling out a Jordan move and referring to them as his supporting cast. I mean I don’t know where you’ve been, but these things were said in the locker room right near his teammates so they could hear him that day right after the loss. I’m not saying he or Kobe are exactly media darlings, but to say that Kobe said those things and not to mention that Lebron said the things above is just missing the other half. If you think less of Kobe for speaking the truth on what his teammate was doing wrong, then you have to think less of Lebron for pretty much saying none of his teammates are good enough to play with him and even be considered equal to him. I just don’t get why people pick at straws on this thing. Both have said some things and you choose to look past some of these things because they’re the player you like. I choose to look past Kobe’s fury at the FO for not trading Bynum for Kidd when they could’ve gotten him because Kidd at the time was a much better player than Bynum. I don’t fault Kobe for saying in one interview after 5-6 years of dealing with Shaq where he finally let his frustrations out. Just like I don’t really fault Lebron for blaming his teammates for a loss, but I think he should praise them just as much for a win, but in wins all I heard about was how good Lebron James played as he praised himself in third person. Just saying, both are not good examples of teammates at times, but I think Kobe was the better teammate, you think Lebron was. I don’t think you should split hairs and point out Kobe’s faults but not talk about Lebron’s at the same time.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 3, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You agree he was an arrogant prick,

tell me how has he changed—you are not in that locker room or travel with the team either. I go by what I see in interviews, press conferences, ect. He is aloof and gaurded as he always has been. Whatever happened with Shaq, in reality he was part of the problem and you seem to be putting all the blame on Shaq—who IMO was more important than Kobe in the bigger scheme of things. You say my perception is media driven, well how is yours any less?

by mjtig on Sep 1, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no perception in regards to how Kobe

acted because I wasn’t there. I am a fan of Kobe as a basketball player and for what he has accomplished. I didn’t agree I meant to say that you don’t know that for a fact. As far as who was more important I think they were equally important.

So if you by press conferences etc..shouldn’t you judge Lebron by those same standards? Lebron’s actions in the media is what everyone is judging him by. If you can’t see that he has acted like a douche then I don’t know how you can keep such a close eye on Kobe’s actions but in the same breath say that Lebron hasn’t been an asshole?

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

mjtig

Maybe i’m mistaken but I think you are missing the point. The reason that no one ever says anything about Shaq leaving Orlando is because he did it without being an asshole like Lebron was.

The problem is not that Lebron left Cleveland but the issue is with how he did it. It is his actions through out the whole process that was a problem. Unlike many players like Shaq and others who have switched teams Lebron was born and raised there. They adopted him as their son and he enjoyed all the adoration he received.

By the way, you insist on comparing Kobe and Lebron but there is no need for that. Lebron at this point in his career and in terms of accomplishments he can’t even step in Kobe’s shadown and maybe never will now that he has lowered himself to sidekick level. Nothing wrong with that but it is still a fact. 5 rings does cure a lot of things and Lebron has a long way to go to get there.

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you in that I didn't like the way Lebron made a spectacle out of everything

I wish he just came out and said I am signing with Miami and gave some of his reasons. That way the country would not be having this pointless debate. Obviously, I am very happy with the out come, but not the way he went about it.

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think as a Heat fan

all you can do is be a fan. Laker fans are all to familiar of hearing their best player and city dragged trought the mud. But after all, you cant deny the Lakers and Kobe are champions. Winning cures everything. Just look at what it has done to Artest’s career since winning the title. Prior to that you couldn’t say the name Artest without using the word “brawl”.

Trust me, if Lebron were to have signed with the Lakers we would defend him to no end also. Just like I defend Kobe. I am not a part time fan.

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree 100%

The Lakers and Heat are clearly the two best teams. I cant wait for Christmas day and hopefully the Finals (barring injuries). I hope this evolves into an intense rivalry

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

How can you reasonably say the Heat is one of the 2 best?

It is a LONG way from being reality to state that as if it was a fact before training camp – vs teams like the Magic and Celtics. It’s very unlikely that things will be rosy with a 6’ 9" starting center.

How long has it been in the NBA since a team was in that situation?

by nba is the worst on Sep 2, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am sure the people in Orlando thought Shaq was an asshole...

he was not born there, but I’m sure they adopted him just the same and he was their hope, just like the people in Cleveland think Lebron is an asshole—who really gives a care how it’s done, all they care about is that it is done in the end—I guess you do in one case and not in the other. But, then again, you look to be a Shaq hater in the end after he helped win those championships for you—wasn’t too fat, lead fine IMO during that time. The potential is there for Lebron to make a run at multiple championships as an equal partner to Wade IMO. You choose to call it a sidekick role—it’s your opinion as it is Mr. T’s, but I will argue if you do that for LBJ, you have to do it for Kobe during those first three championships. At best, kobe/shaq were equals and I would argue Shaq was more important which would reduce Kobe’s championship win totals to two as being the “man”. Again, I do not think this is fair to either player.

by mjtig on Sep 1, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am not sure why you think I am a Shaq hater

I am not. I appreciated what he did as a Laker. Just like Kobe I have no issue with pointing out what Shaq’s faults were at the time. Pointing out his flaws does not mean I hate him.

Again, you insist on talking about Kobe and Lebron as equals when Lebron still has a long way to even be mentioned in the same breath. You compare Kobe’s accomplishments with Shaq to Lebron and Wade’s pairing. That is impossible since Wade and Lebron haven’t played a single game. Since the Heat is Wade’s team at the moment Lebron is a sidekick until he proves otherwise.

I agree that it might not be fair to either one though.

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 1, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two facts

Orlando refused to pay market value for Shaq – LA offered a million more per season (in ’96 dollars) making Shaq the highest paid at the time.

Shaq never said he “wouldn’t stop until he brought Orlando a title” – nor did he quit on his teammates and throw a playoff series on his way out of town…

by nba is the worst on Sep 2, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't too fat?

Are you kidding me. This is the guy who said he’d heal on company time because he wanted to party in the offseason instead of being ready for the regular season. This is a guy who after winning MVP showed up like 30-40 lbs overweight. He always had a poor work ethic. I can’t believe this. If Shaq was as good for all three years as he was the first championship year, there’s no way that he doesn’t win MVP all those years. So what changed? Let me guess, it was Kobe’s fault right? I can’t believe you just said he led just fine during that time. You have got to be kidding me. I loved Shaq as a player and often think he is too discredited when it comes to his skills, but he did have a poor work ethic. He did often come into the season completely out of shape, and he was the one who coined the statements about turning it on in the playoffs just admitting that he wasn’t going all out. He led just fine? smh.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 3, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He (Shaq) was the best player on the court for the Lakers during that time IMO,

and he led with his play on the court and he wasn’t too fat when he helped you win those championships hater. Hate him all you want, how about just saying thanks. Could have won a few more with both of them—it may not be all Kobe’s fault but he had a hand in it for sure. It won’t matter soon enough with the Lakers anyway IMO, Kobe is an old 32, with 45,000 minutes played (MJ hit this mark at 36) and I predict Kobe will hit that wall this year or next. His lift is already going, getting injured more often, and next will be his defense, and then….. We know how this works—old rickety Celtics also. I am a big Shaq fan also, and he just simply is not what he used to be because of time and that is all, in his day he was the most dominant force in the league and I hope he plays well. Mediocrity coming soon for both of you if you don’t start making moves soon respectively.

by mjtig on Sep 3, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is no doubt that

Shaq was the most dominant player on the floor for the Lakers, and by far the best post player on the floor at any given point and time, but you substantially negate the other forces around him, especially the best guard on the floor at almost any given point and time, and you don’t help his legacy at all by maintaining he had no faults as a leader. I’m not saying Kobe had no part in Shaq’s departure, but to say he ran him out of town is just utterly false because Shaq has too much pride to let something like Kobe getting on him deter him away from where he wants to be. Shaq would have stayed in LA if they offered him a contract, but they didn’t and they decided to offer Kobe one instead. The decision was on LA for which one they wanted, not just to get rid of Shaq. It was Kobe or Shaq, and there was no guarantee they would even keep Kobe and they still didn’t offer Shaq a contract. Why? Because of all the years of being the man and not playing hard, half-assing in practice, prolonging injuries, not taking care of his body in the offseason, demanding payment from ownership before the season even started, embarassing ownership in public with demands that they pay him, and all around just trying to bully the owners into keeping him. He was an ass by the end of his time in LA, and the owners didn’t want him.
Now, do not perceive that I am not aware that Kobe has done some of these things with ownership for a period of time after Shaq’s departure as well. He did, but we’re talking about the divorce of Shaq and Kobe, and not Kobe after the fact. The fact of the matter is that LA had not won a title in two years leading up to their free agency and it is often pointed to Kobe as the reason why, but in reality both were at fault for what should’ve been an even more potent attack. But Shaq was a liability at the end of games and Kobe was liable to get frustrated in the middle of them. But you said the key part in it all, Shaq HELPED to win those championships, and he helped to lose in the years they didn’t win. I don’t get why the losing part is never attached to Shaq as much as its attached to Kobe, but thats just me. IMO they were both integral to winning especially out in the West during those times.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 4, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

this is a Heat blog if you have not noticed, you hating undercover Celtic Troll—yes, I will take a chance and call you a Celtic fan because you have over 1000 comments on Celtic Blog (go ahead and declare it if so) and if someone is going to go past a certain limit on a Heat player (Lebron is a Heat now if you have not noticed) or someone like Shaq who was the most dominate player on their own team when he was there IMO and helped win those championships for them (there is a lot of this I’m a big Shaq fan back then, but here are all his negative faults by the way because they are big Kobe fans, nobody listing Kobe faults also) then I might call them a hater. I’m a huge Shaq fan also and know he is not the same player he was but this is just because he is 36 (father time). I do not feel Lebron deserves the criticism/hate he is getting for his time in Cleveland or even how he left either as I have already stated. You noticed I did not call any of those Lakers fans trolls though because they are coming over to defend their player and I respect that. I will use hater though just as they would if I went over to SCR and defended Lebron and happened to explain how I felt about Kobe in the process.

by mjtig on Sep 4, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ironic...

On CelticsBlog, I’m a Lakers troll!

by nba is the worst on Sep 5, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get

where I had to mention kobe’s faults. We were talking about Shaq and his leadership and why I thought he was a bad leader. You said nothing to counteract that but Shaq was a dominant player on the floor and he won us championships overloking multiple facts about Shaq while he was in LA. You give Shaq the credit for wins and do nothing but try to make him look like a standup citizen. But Shaq was there when they lost for the other 5 years he was there as well. He contributed equally to reasons for both why they won and why they lost. You may have rose-colored glasses on, but thats the truth. He and Kobe could have done something special but BOTH of them did not want to do it anymore and management surely knew that, which is why they chose between them. I don’t see why this makes me a homer because I said that.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 8, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I said he was the most dominant player on the floor...

for the Lakers during his time there and HELPED you win those championships—I did not say he won them all by himself—without him I do not think the Lakers make it to even the finals IMO. If you do not think that has something to do with leading a team, then I guess we should agree to disagree. Shaq is a stand up citizen—he is like able with fans, players, and media alike and has never been in trouble with the law. I have made it clear I do not like Kobe but you say you are a fan of both Kobe and Shaq. You agree that if Shaq did stay, the Lakers would have had a good shot at more championships (something special). If you are a Shaq fan, why not just say thanks Shaq, and it did not work out even if I say Kobe is a total asshole (my opinion) and ran Shaq out of town—I did qualify things by saying Kobe was not totally responsible for having Shaq leave although I do feel he had something to do with it. As for the years the Lakers did not win, I agree they are equally responsible along with the rest of the teams respectively.

by mjtig on Sep 8, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think anyone

thinks that the Lakers make it to the Finals without Shaq either, but I don’t think they make it to the finals sans Kobe either. They had more than serviceable guards before with Kobe on the bench and didn’t make it. I don’t think that being a leading contributor and being a leader are the same thing. A leader leads on the court and off of it. They come in on time and they workout with everyone else. They do whatever they have to do to make sure they give their team the best chance to win. I don’t think continuing to be 30-40 lbs overweight coming into seasons, taking games off, refusing to have surgery in the offseason, and exploiting injuries is conducive to being a good leader. You can be a great player and not be a good leader, and you can be an average player and be a good leader. I don’t understand why I can’t separate them for Shaq.

The most I will give you about Kobe’s involvement was that he said he would not come back to LA if they re-signed Shaq. Thats the most he could’ve done because he himself was a free agent with no bargaining chips in his favor really. Buss chose Kobe over Shaq end of story.

Shaq was a great player, with a horrible work ethic when it came to staying in shape and honing his skills. I don’t see why thats a bad thing to say when it is exactly the truth. Shaq could’ve been the best C ever for his whole career instead of just two seasons. Instead, he chose to take the slackers route. He made the choice and as a fan, I am also a critic and that is my observaiton of Shaq’s career.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 11, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe had no talent around him, Lebron had plenty.......

he just couldnt do anything with it.

Lets look at the starting lineups from Kobe’s 2007 squad and Lebron’s 2010 squad.

Mo Williams >>>>> Smush Parker
Anthony Parker = Vladimir Radmonovich
Antawn Jamison > Lamar Odom
Shaquille O’Neal >>> Kwame Brown

And then you have the benches.
Varajao, Hickson, Big Z, Moon, Powe & West
vs.
Walton, Vujacic, Farmar, Maurice Evans, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf, Chris Mihm……….

Lebron had PLENTY of talent around him. He just didnt do anything with it.

"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow

by LakersFoEva on Aug 31, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about

Both cast’s sucked. It was only after the lakers added Gasol that Kobe became happy. If the Cavs added a player like Gasol, there is a good chance that Lebron would have stayed. Jamison is not that much better that Odom if at all (and Odom is the 6th man on the Lakers right now). He certaintly didn’t play like it the second half of the season. Both players were their whole teams. You take Lebron and Kobe off either of those teams and they compete for the worst record. You obviously did not watch many Cavs games if you think Lebron’s supporting cast was any good. Plus, Lebron is smart. He looked at the Lakers roster and said there is not much the Cavs could add to compete with that. Kobe has 5 players I would want over Mo Williams in a championship run (Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest, and Fisher). There was no way the Cavs could add 5 player of their caliber anytime soon. So, Lebron went to a team that could.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 31, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you put Kobe on a team with Mo Williams, Jamison and Shaq with the bench they had,

they win the championship. ’nough said.

"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow

by LakersFoEva on Sep 1, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

what a well thought out arguement. Mo Williams played very poorly in the playoffs (avg 13 ppg against the Celtics), Jamison was not himself the after being traded (15 ppg for the cavs and 11 ppg against the Celtics), and Shaq was a shell of his former self (13 ppg against the Celtics). Now please tell me what was so great about the Cav’s bench. Anderson Varejao (5.7ppg in the playoffs)? Sorry, but I cant say Kobe wins a championship for sure with that team.

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

its really hard to understand why you cant realize that

Mo Williams is WAY BETTER than Smush Parker
Shaq (even at his age) is WAY BETTER than Kwame Brown.
Jamison = Odom
Parker = Radmonovich

Varajao = Turiaf
Hickson is WAY BETTER than Brian Cook
Big Z is BETTER than Mihm
West = Farmar
Moon = Evans
Powe is BETTER than Walton

The only advantage Kobe had on his team was that he was Kobe.

The Lakers finished 45 – 37 & 42-20 in the two years with Kwame & Smush. Kobe led them to a 7th seed with no talent on the team besides Odom and himself. The Cavs finished 66-16 & & 61-20 the last two years, which was the best record in the league. How can you say there was no talent on that team????

Those numbers you put up for Williams, Jamison and Shaq (even though you said they played poorly) were still better than what Kobe had to deal with.
Smush – 11 ppg, 3 asts
Odom – 13 ppg, 8 rebs
Kwame – 8 ppg, 6 rebs

Is that well thought enough for you, since you are all about stats.

"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow

by LakersFoEva on Sep 1, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't say they weren't better. I just think your are way overstating it and both teams dd not have a bench even worth mentioning

Mo Williams is not a #2 on a championship team no matter how you look at it. If you put Kobe on the Cavs, they are still the #1 seed, but they most likely get beat by Orlando or Boston. The Cavs were a great regular season team (like the suns of the past), but were not built for the playoffs. No one can will a championship by themself. Boston focused on Lebron (they would do the samething to Kobe if he were in that situation) and didn’t have to worry about anybody else. If the second best player on the team is getting 13ppg, that isn’t gonna cut it in the playoffs. I am just saying that if you replaced Lebron with Kobe, I cannot say they win a championship

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't say they win a championship either

but I had to lol when you compared last year’s Cavs to to 05-07 Lakers.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 3, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

but that to me means they were on the same level of suck, I mean insufficiency, but I do a great disservice to all those Cavaliers if I compare them to the likes of Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. oh the terrible memories of those games as they fumbled pass after pass and caused TO after TO. sigh…

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 4, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coincidence?

Why did all of LeBron’s teammates play worse with him than they did before coming to the Cavs?

What will you say if/when this repeats itself in Miami?

by nba is the worst on Sep 2, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

LeBron as the focal point doesn't allow offensive flow

Too much of the dribbling through the shot clock and chucking up threes (especially when behind) or passing it to a teammate who’s been standing in a spot (uninvolved) and often misses as the shot clock approaches.

A. Parker with the Rapts ’09 per 36 mins:
11.7 pts/3.7ast/1.4 stl/4.3 reb
A. Parker with the Cavs ’10:
9.4/3.6/1.0/3.6

Shaq ’09 Suns per 36 mins:
21.3 pts/10.1 reb/0.8 ast/8.3 fta
Shaq ’10 Cavs:
18.5/10.3/0.4/6.6

Mo Williams with Bucks ’08:
17.2 pts/6.3 ast /1.2 stl/3.5 reb
Mo Williams with Cavs ’10:
15.3/5.3/1.0/3.0

by nba is the worst on Sep 3, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Those numbers are misleading

Shaq played on the Suns. In that up tempo offense and with Steve Nash creating for him he should put up better numbers than in the Cavs offense (one of the slowest in the league). Mo Williams was the only player the Bucks had. Redd was injured and it was before Bogut started playing well. So Williams was basically the first, second, and third option. And Anthony Parker was 35 yrs old, once again the Cavs play at a slow pace, and he didn’t play a big role. However, Parker shot better from the field and from 3 than in his last year in Toronto. Lebron had to be the focal point, who are you going to run the offense through? Shaq?

by #1Heatfan on Sep 3, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can run an offense through someone

without them having to hold the ball for like 18 of the 24 seconds on the shot clock. And the numbers just show that others could create for themselves before, but when they run a slower offense that doesn’t give them that opportunity it lessens their effectiveness. If Lebron was a good enough player, he wouldn’t have slowed the offense down that much because these players all can create for themselves and for him if need be. I understand that Mike Brown isn’t the greatest coach in the world, but I mean everyone for the past couple years has been saying the Cavs played way too slow for the pieces they had and one of the primary reasons for that is the guy who starts the offense and the focal point of the offense which was Lebron. Anthony Parker is a set shooter and had the task of being one of the better defenders on the team, but he was underutilized on offense. And Lebron is supposed to be as good of a passer as the best pgs in the league, including Nash, so pick and roll between him and Shaq should’ve have been a pretty good attack for him and for Shaq. Jamison is like a historically bad example of a player so poorly suited to play in that kind of system and his stats completely plummeted off of his career average and honestly, you can’t tell me you saw that coming.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 3, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually expected that Jamison would be a very good fit once the trade happened.

But which players do you think can create shots for themselves and Lebron? Like you said, Parker is a stand still shooter, so he is out. Jamison normally can, but for some reason didn’t last year. Shaq needs the pick and roll to be effective (someone creating for him). And Mo Williams is primarily a scorer. Who else is there?

by #1Heatfan on Sep 3, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone who is primarily a scorer

can be just as effective as a passer if you learn to cut and run with them. And much more effective than if you have them stand on the perimeter and wait for you to pass them the ball for a shot. Williams and Parker became almost strictly 3-pt shooters, and Jamison just did not seem to know where he should be on the court. Shaq does need a pick and roll, but I wasn’t trying to say he could create for anyone at this point. Williams has a good enoug handle when he’s in rhythm to plant the seed of an offense. Their best play the past two years was a connection between Williams and Lebron on opposite sides of the wing and Varejao/whoever goes to set a back pick for Lebron at the same time that Williams drives. Williams is enough of a threat to draw a defender, but because Lebron is much more of one they hedge to him before realizing what Williams is doing. Williams tosses it up for Lebron, boom, alley-oop or if they stay with Williams bounce pass to Lebron for the strong finish, and of course the last option if open was for Williams to finish. That was their best play. Rarely did you see Lebron move so much without the ball, except for in that play. He didn’t screen off the ball to force defense to think about what he’s doing and when you’re in as open of an offense as he was in that would’ve helped a lot. I’m not saying there was anyone better at creating for Lebron than he was for himself, but it definitely could’ve been a lot easier for him. I just thought that the supporting cast was underutilized and thats what lead to this view that they could not create for themselves or for others, especially in the cases of Williams and Jamison. Thats just my opinion though.

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game. - Charlie Wilson

by Marty Mart on Sep 4, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK - so I guess your subjective opinion is superior?

You apparently forgot that the Suns under Porter slowed the tempo. Offensive rating in ‘09, Suns 113.6, Cavs 112.4.So you’re wrong there.

Redd played 72 games to 66 for Mo, aavg 22.7/3.4. Bogut avg’d 14.3/9.8/1.7 and Villanueva 11.7/6.1. But don’t let FACTS affect your opinions…

Stats are “misleading”, so how about best record in the league 2 straight seasons and best home record with LeBron on the court (tieing the alltime NBA record until the Cavs rested him at the end of the season) doesn’t mean they were good – and the 2-1 series lead after handing the Celtics the worst home playoff defeat in Celtics’ (long) history surely proves the Celtics were the better team…

Seriously, you can’t reasonably support your arguments.

by nba is the worst on Sep 4, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be fair, kobe bitched and demanded to be traded. his wish simply wasn’t fulfilled.

"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."

by chaucer on Aug 31, 2010 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I'd say there's another difference

Kobe never tanked a playoff series as the leader of an overwhelming favorite #1 seeded team with just 10 home wins to go for the title – after leading the team to a 2-1 series lead.

Most basketball fans would call that unforgivable.

by nba is the worst on Aug 30, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you are Dan Gilbert and then you would throw out all kinds of adjectives.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 7:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stats don't tell the true story

Unless you compare the games 1-3 stats with the 4-6 stats.

Watching his effort change between when the Cavs were leading the series 2-1 and in particular, the effort in games 4 (where all cavs starters were in double figures and Shaq/Varejao outscored Perk/Sheed 25-3) and game 5 (with the standing around near halfcourt on offense) proves it.

And to compare that travesty to Kobe and the Lakers in ’07 as a 7th seed is laughable – remember that the Cavs were #1 favorites!

by nba is the worst on Sep 1, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess you dont remember that first round playoff series against the Suns, now yeah the Lakers were a 7th seed and the Suns a 2nd seed but the Lakers were up 3-1 in that series and in that game 7 the Lakers got destroyed and Kobe in the second half of that game scored only 1 point

But yet thats not tanking at all right

by toppdog on Aug 31, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

FTW

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

(sigh) that's not the point... this is the point: the Lakers were expected to lose, but still they were able to make a 3-1 lead!

read on, to see the whole story in context, dude:

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/5/31/1483824/kobe-exorcises-his-phoenix-born

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 1, 2010 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

(sigh) that's not the point... this is the point: the Lakers were expected to lose, but still they were able to make a 3-1 lead!

read on, to see the whole story in context, dude:

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/5/31/1483824/kobe-exorcises-his-phoenix-born

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 1, 2010 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

also...

if you look at the numbers, almost every player on the Cavs played significantly worse in that series. I donno, but maybe it could be because the Celtics are a pretty darn good defensie ball club. This also proves that his supporting cast wansn’t championship quality. When Lebron played bad (well bad for him) everyone else played bad. the Celtics knew if they shut down Lebron no one else could touch them so they focused on him and no one else was able to create for themselves. Lebron had to create almost every scoring opportunity for his teamates and when he was bottled up, everyone played poorly.

by #1Heatfan on Sep 1, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 2-time MVP and team leader quit on his teammates

And you blame the teammates.

Game 4, every Cavs starter is in double figures, only 3 Celtics are. Shaq/Varejao outscore Perk/Sheed 25-3.

The score at the beginning of the 4thQ, 74-72 Boston.

And the Cavs’ leader (who has multiple 20-pt quarters vs the Celtics and who averaged 37 ppg vs them, including 38 in gm 3), scores 5 pts on 6 shots, only making 2 LAYUPS in that quarter, finishing with 22 pts – 1 more than in the 1st Q ALONE in the previous game. Rondo outrebounds him by 10 and outscores him by 7.

Why would you expect the team that was built around the MVP not to follow his lead?.

by nba is the worst on Sep 2, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

people keep going back to game 4. Lebron is intitled to a bad game or two every once and a while. You need to look a the series as a whole.

And I didn’t blame it on his teamates, I gave credit to Boston’s defense. Not only for being good, but also for realizing if they bottle up Lebron the Cav’s offense becomes stagnant because no one else can create for themselves. You cant blame any one person, the team did not have that one player that could help Lebron in that situation and be able to take advantage of double teams. No team has won a championship recently that did not have more than one player capable of creating for themself.

Champions from 2000 (I don’t have all day)
2000- LA- Kobe had Shaq (or the other way around)
2001- LA- Kobe had Shaq (or the other way around)
2002- LA- Kobe had Shaq (or the other way around)
2003- SA- Duncan had Robinson
2004- DET- Billups had Wallace or Hamilton (great overall team)
2005- SA- Duncan had Parker and Ginobili
2006- MIA- Wade had Shaq
2007- SA- Duncan had Parker and Ginobili
2008- BOS- Pierce had Garnett and Allan
2009- LA- Kobe had Gasol
2010- LA- Kobe had Gasol

If you want we could go throught the 90’s when Jordan had Pippen. Did Lebron ever have a player of the same caliber of those #2’s? Plus, if Lebron really did quit in game four, how do you explain the 27 pts 19 rebs and 10 asts in the deciding game? Those don’t look like the numbers of a guy who quit 2 games before

by #1Heatfan on Sep 2, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said the supporting cast wasn't championship quality

Yet they were the #1 seeded favorites to win the title. What changed in the Celtics’ defense between games 1-3 and games 4-6?

Who can say who the Cavs had “capable of creating for themself” when it was all about LeBron – but Shaq at 18.5/10.3 per 36 mins sure beats David Robinson’s 11.7/10.9 in ’03.

And more people point to game 5, where he stood around halfcourt while his teammates went 4 on 5 on multiple possessions – something he NEVER did before.

And as far as elimination game performances, most people would say that the Celtics’ ’08 team with KG healthy was better defensively, and LeBron had 45 pts on 49% FG shooting and only 2 turnovers – compared to the 27 pts on 38% shooting with 9 turnovers, and also no shot attempts in the last 2 minutes of a single-digit game…

by nba is the worst on Sep 3, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

The #1 seed just means they had a good regular season. Its a different story once the postseason arrives.

Didn’t the #1 seeded Mavs lose to the #8 seeded Warriors a few years ago. I feel it is safe to say that Boston was better that the #4 seed that they got. That team didn’t go all out during the regular season, they saved for the playoffs. If they tried in the regular season, they would have probably been the second best team. A team having a great regular season record means nothing once the postseason starts. The Suns had great records all those years, but were simpy not built for the playoffs. Just because he played very well in one game two years earlier, doesn’t mean if he doesn’t play as well in the next that he gave up. If that was the case he should have 48 pts and score 25 of his teams last 29 pts everytime he plays the Pistons. Is that what your saying? And I am no longer going to argue about Lebron throwing the series, because it is stuped to say or think that one of the top 3 players gave up just because his former owner said so because he felt he owned Lebron and felt betrayed when Lebron left.

by #1Heatfan on Sep 3, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I notice you ignored the part about "What changed in the Celts' defense halfway through the series"...

LeBron proved on multiple occasions that the Celtics couldn’t “bottle him up” when he played with his normal effort – as shown by the 38-pt effort on 63% FG shooting in game 3.

The FACT that he averaged 37 PPG vs the Celtics can’t be dismissed by the BS about how the Celtics “didn’t go all out” in the regular season. That is true regarding games vs the Nets and 76ers – but against the top teams the Celtics brought it, as the 1-pt splits with the Lakers and the 2-2 split with the Cavs proved.

Dan Gilbert’s statements have NOTHING to do with an NBA analyst and critic seeing LeBron quit with his own eyes.

Since you deny/refuse to see the OBVIOUS, all I can say is I back my arguments with FACTS- you don’t…

by nba is the worst on Sep 4, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the comparison:

Wins: Spurs 60, Cavs 61. Record last 10 games, Spurs 8-2, overtaking the Mavs who finished TIED for best record; Cavs 4-6, resting their starters after clinching, and STILL 2 games better than the 2nd place Magic.

Starters scoring besides LeBron/Duncan:
Spurs: Cavs:
Parker 15.5 Jamison AND Williams 15.8
Jackson 11.8 Shaq 12.0
Robnson 8.5 Hickson 8.5
Bowen 7.1 Parker 7.3
Totals Spurs 42.9; Cavs 43.6 with Hickson, 50.9 with Jamison

Win margin pg, Spurs 5.4, Cavs 6.5
Team rebs pg, Spurs 42.6, Cavs 42.5; Reb mgn Spurs 1.76, Cavs 3.93
FG%, Spurs .462, Cavs .485
3-pt FG%, Spurs .354, Cavs .381
FT%, Spurs 72%, Cavs 72.5%
Assists, Spurs 20.0pg, Cavs 22.4

The facts don’t support your opinion, once again.

by nba is the worst on Sep 4, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

actually he didn't "openly criticize" any teammates.....

he criticized Bynum in a parking lot while being videotaped by a “fan” who then released the video to the public. If we all had a “friend” videotaping everything we said I would imagine that none of us would have any friends for very long.

Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."

by pslakerfan on Sep 1, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

"That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. " Kobe on Shaq being a leader

by Jelly Bean on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kobe

is still the BEST PLAYER in the NBA. But Lebron, Wade, Durant and Melo have closed the gap to almost nothing. Kobe and his Lakers are still the champs and team we need to beat to start our DYNASTY. F*CK ALL THE HATERS!!!! they just scared we are gonna beat there teams by 40 and they cant do nothing bout it but watch. 70-12 will be our record and we will beat the Lakers in 7 for the title.
GO HEAT!!!!!!!

by ceo86 on Aug 29, 2010 11:22 PM EDT reply actions  

lol karma

"IN PAT WE TRUST"
*Now seating First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.*
THE U: DONATING TO THE NFL SINCE 1926.
btw -- i'm tcp's favorite

by chrislucas on Aug 30, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Time will tell...

First, Mario’s ankle. Then Haslem’s legal problem.

What’s next?

You won’t be laughing by playoff time.

by nba is the worst on Aug 30, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

no such thing as karma

time & unforeseen occurrence. as for what’s next; a trophy with a big golden basketball on it.

"IN PAT WE TRUST"
*Now seating First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.*
THE U: DONATING TO THE NFL SINCE 1926.
btw -- i'm tcp's favorite

by chrislucas on Aug 30, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Stern's NBA...

It’s likely that indeed there is indeed karma – even if you deny its existence in a universal sense…

by nba is the worst on Aug 31, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

wht's he going to do?

put smallpox on our uniforms & have someone break LeBron’s knees?

"IN PAT WE TRUST"
*Now seating First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.*
THE U: DONATING TO THE NFL SINCE 1926.
btw -- i'm tcp's favorite

by chrislucas on Aug 31, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

you can never know...

be careful what you wish for. lol

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha I'm not too worried about an epidemic breaking out in the locker room

or goons with lead pipes coming at Heat players.

color me naive

"IN PAT WE TRUST"
*Now seating First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.*
THE U: DONATING TO THE NFL SINCE 1926.
btw -- i'm tcp's favorite

by chrislucas on Aug 31, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last season, the Heat FA's were 4th, 5th, and 7th in free throw attempts

IMO Stern isn’t happy with the players and Riley beating the system.

Watch those fouls against/ft numbers plummet…

by nba is the worst on Sep 1, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

still Celtics vs. Lakers but maybe for the last time^^

I don’t count on the Heat in their 1. season together. They may come to the eastern conference finals but not further.
I expect another Celtics-Lakers battle – maybe the last one, because the heat and thunder will growing and the next dominant teams.

by greenmech on Aug 30, 2010 7:03 AM EDT reply actions  

yup...

i can’t still see the heat beat something as tough as the celtics… celtics’ frontcourt would kill the heat’s…

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"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

SF is incluede in the frontcourt

I personally would rather have Lebron, Bosh, and Anthony over Pierce, Garnett, and Perkins.

by #1Heatfan on Aug 31, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, true...

…but LBJ was never a post-up kind of guy…

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"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 2, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

i was referring to overall inside presence... both offense and defense... rebounding included...

i still can see the celts controlling the rebounds, though… but we’ll just see in their first game…

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 2, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

It will be heat vs lakers in the finals.
Let the bitchass haters hate who simply have no life.
Lebron never demanded a trade though, he played out his contract, lead the cavs in almost every single category, 2 time season mvp and a trip to the finals.
Heck he was way more important to them than Melo is for Denver.
Melo never won a season mvp and never made it to the finals.
People are just mad they wanted one of the top 3 stars on their respective teams this past free agency.
And guess what we kept our star and got the other 2.
Haters quit sucking on those sour grapes, get some therapy to get over your man crushes and get a freaking life!

Miami Thrice is incredible....Heat Tri-nasty is inevitable!

by thedeeofdees on Aug 30, 2010 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

uh, how is this related to the topic on hand?

everybody has different opinions here, but still remained civil.

there was no need for this:

Let the bitchass haters hate who simply have no life.

you the other hand… well, no offense, but with your tone, it seems you’re the one who needs to “get some therapy.”

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

exactly, I definitely don’t hate the Heat – They are the second team on my list – very close behind the Celtics ^^ I guess many guys here and at the Celticsblog only want that one of the teams beating the bitch-asses from LA XD

by greenmech on Sep 10, 2010 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

it would be so easy...

…to hate all these Kobe lovers if it weren’t for the simple fact that the man has 5 rings. annoying, spoiled, ignorant, etc. all true. and please, bad karma? lebron has a right to play any where he wants. he was what is known as a free agent. look it up, idiots.

1+3+6=how many rings???

by Dollar Man on Aug 30, 2010 10:53 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, he better thank Gasol and Shaq

because between the time he played with them he was busy finishing the season 42-40 and getting blown out by the Suns in the first round.

by Nate P. on Aug 30, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.

by LakerUNLTD on Aug 31, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I despise the Lakers this picture is pretty awesome.

And for the record, NO ONE , not one player, won a title on his own. They all had help…whether it was Shaq, Gasol, Pippen, Russell, Wilt, Magic, Pierce, they all had someone else.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Aug 31, 2010 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pierce

Doesn’t belong in that company.

Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.

by LakerUNLTD on Aug 31, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No but he illustrates my point 100% thus why he was used.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Sep 1, 2010 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

hello. LAL32

that’s right… spread this epic pic that bxf found for us. lol

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

of course :)

3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.

by LAL32 on Aug 31, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

winning the last one with a C's- Handycap

Lucky Fakers! The last ring doesn’t count much, everybody who watched it knows that!
and don’t compare this with Bynum 2008 – we had won with Bynum too, because we were a lot better! Not this time, but try to compensate a guy like Perk – thats impossible…. Is you Silver-Asshole-Blog not interesting enough, that you have to bother other ones??

by greenmech on Sep 10, 2010 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Incredible - hypocrisy is SO common among Celtics fans

“Only Celtics’ players injuries matter”

“Disregard NBA alltime ft margin in game 2 ’08, the refs screwed us in game 7 in ’10”

Ridiculous!

by nba is the worst on Sep 10, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

And this is where your argument fails:
don’t compare this with Bynum 2008

Bynum missed the entire series, while Perkins missed a game and half. Like the comment above me, it’s extremely hypocritical to say that only Celtic’s injuries matter and Laker’s injuries don’t.

"If you have a debate with a scholar, you can win. If you have a debate with an ignorant person, you will definitely lose."

"The NBA Apocalypse has occurred, and it's our fault."- C.A. Clark

"I don’t always celebrate, but when I do, it’s when the Lakers win championships. Stay thirsty my friends." - gen!e

by LakerAce on Sep 11, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, let us ignore what you said ;-)

he was able to play and had some dunks too. His injury wasn’t that big – he provided a good performance as a defender and in the offense. The whole Celtics game was formed and established with a guy like Perk in the middle – Sheed had to compensate that and wasn’t able with his old legs… A guy like Bynum, with his huge height advantage over Perk, is still competing with a sore knee against the smaller Perkins and Wallace. Tough, I said this before: It would be more difficult for the Cs with an healthy Bynum, yes but in the case how it happens, we were able to win this crucial game 7 with Perk on the floor! It is like it is, nobody can change the things that happen: The Lakers are the champs for now, but will loose next year in the playoffs against OKC and every LaLa will cry like a baby XD

by greenmech on Sep 15, 2010 5:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for proving my point!

Game 7, Bynum played 19 minutes and had 2 pts, and were -12 with him on the court.

As I said, Celtics fans believe “only Celtics’ injuries matter” – and this post is a typical example.

Fortunately, to non-celts fans, the 2010 Lakers’ title DOES count!

by nba is the worst on Sep 16, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

what? this thread is still alive? lol

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 16, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

His karma is bad for multiple reasons

For true basketball fans, his tanking the Celtics series with a 2-1 lead is what makes him unforgivable – glad I’m not a Cavs fan or the broken promises might have been another issue…

by nba is the worst on Aug 30, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously...

…you have to be Dan Gilbert.

I’ve seen less whinging from normal Cavs fan about that loss to the Celtics…

Tobias Fünke: Okay, Lindsay, are you forgetting that I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist!!

by TooManyNinjas on Aug 31, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dood, u just messed up my whole day......

whats next, ur gonna tell me there’s no Easter Bunny.

"I work my ass off every day in practice. How many other guys can say the same thing? Not many. I'm fighting against becoming soft. That's the worse thing you can say to a basketball player." - Dennis Rodman
"When life slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry walls." - Aldous Snow

by LakersFoEva on Aug 31, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

noooo... say it ain't so...

s-santa’s not real?

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.

by Ben R on Aug 31, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

you are correct...

…it’s his right, but he should have not been a douchebag about it.

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Aug 31, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you watch the whole interview on ESPN.com

instead of the snnipet on yahoo, then you will see that Kobe did say that he would never leave the lakers for greaner pastures. He didn’t just say he would retire a laker.

by Nate P. on Aug 30, 2010 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Kobe couldnt have won those rings if it wasnt for shaq and pau

by wizardsfan1 on Aug 31, 2010 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Are we just going to discount all the rings that were won with 2 superstars?

Jordan wouldn’t have won without Pippen.
Bird wouldn’t have won without Mchale and Parrish.
Magic wouldn’t have won without Kareem and Worthy.
Duncan wouldn’t have won without Parker, Ginobli, and Robinson.

Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.

by LakerUNLTD on Aug 31, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

this

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Aug 31, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya, i mean if you need to win with no superstar to be considered an all-time great

Then the only all-time great would be Hakeem Olajuwon

Just because you throw someone a pass, and they score, it doesn't mean you made them a better player.

by LakerUNLTD on Aug 31, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did though

have Otis Thorpe and Vernon Maxwell, two solid secondary contributors.

Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?

by shaqfor3 on Aug 31, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

ESPECIALLY this guy ^^^^

Visit The Bernel Zone

"No one wins forever. Only thing that matters is how you face it when the cards don't come up your way. I'm not afraid." - Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #475)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - C.S. Lewis

kobe bryant=batman

by bernel on Sep 1, 2010 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

rec'd

also russell, who know that guy with 11 rings, he never won a ring without 2 or 3 future hall-of-famers on his team. that “kobe can’t win without” argument is so old.

3 Heat can't stop the 3peat.

by LAL32 on Aug 31, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is hilarious

because Maimi’s team is stacked…

so if they do win a chip in the future, we can discount it bcuz Wade couldnt win without Bosh and James… and Bosh couldnt win without James and Wade and James couldnt win in Cleveland.

It’s just funny that way

"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." -Gil Meriken

by Hensi24 on Sep 12, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

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