MICHAEL JORDAN VS LEBRON JAMES: OPINIONS, DECISIONS, AND COMPARISONS
While the legendary Michael Jordan was making his appearance at a celebrity golf tournament (how come he never appears at NBA events?), Jordan was asked for his opinion on the LeBron James taking his talents to South Beach situation.
Jordan stated,
“There’s no way, with hindsight, I would’ve ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, ‘hey, look, let’s get together and play on one team’. But that’s…things are different. I can’t say that’s a bad thing. It’s an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys.”
Before we enter the world of Michael Jordan and his post six years with the Chicago Bulls, lets take a quick peek at Jordan’s first six seasons in the league compared to LeBron James’.
Much like LeBron James, MJ had to carry his team on his shoulders during his first six years in the NBA.
While Jordan never made it to the NBA Finals during his first six seasons, James managed to do so in only his fourth year in the league with David Wesley being the team’s second best player (or maybe Damon Jones was, tough call).
Although the Cavaliers were swept to the San Antonio Spurs in the 06′-07′ NBA Finals, James was able to bring a team filled with no-namers to the finals.
Jordan stating that he would’ve never called up Larry and Magic to join teams comes off as pure arrogance.
Michael Jordan never had to call up those superstars to join his squad because the Chicago Bulls organization surrounded MJ with all the talent in the world to win countless championships.
During the 87′ NBA Draft the Bulls traded eighth overall pick Olden Polynice along with a second-round draft pick and the option to exchange 1989 first-round draft choices to the Seattle SuperSonics in exchange for Jordan’s partner in crime Scottie Pippen.
While Polynice posted career averages of 7.8 PPG 6.7 RPG in 14 seasons with five different teams, Scottie Pippen, a seven time All-Star and Hall of Famer, became the “Robin” to Michael “Batman” Jordan.
Pippen, along with Jordan, both entered their primes during the Bulls’ first three-peat.
But the NBA’s top duo just wasn’t enough talent, so Chicago went out and traded for seven time NBA All-Defensive First Team and two time Defensive Player of the Year Dennis Rodman. With the Bulls Rodman averaged roughly 15.5 rebounds per game.
In addition to the best player to have ever played the game of basketball, a top 50 all time NBA player, and arguably the best defensive player at the time, the Bulls had Tony Kukoc, the 1996 NBA Sixth Man of the Year, and the best coach in NBA history, Phil Jackson.
Not to mention, when Jordan retired for the 93′-94′ season, the Bulls managed to win 55 games without the legend, making it to the second round of the playoffs.
While Michael Jordan was suffocated with legendary talent in Chicago, LeBron Jameswas fenced in around 38-year old Shaq, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, and AndersonVarejao in Cleveland.
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121 comments
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Comments
hmm two seasons with 60+ wins, the best record in the league, and one of the highest point differentials since the Jordan era.
yeah, that supporting cast sucks.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Not being sarcastic, but..
Do you think Mo Williams is a gd enough #2 on a championship team? I think no, and that Lebron made those role players look much better than they were. But I could be wrong. I guess we will see this season.
Regardless if you win 60+ games 2 years in a row and fail in the playoffs you can’t blame it all on the supporting cast.
Any team capable of winning 60 games is a legitimate contender in my opinion – what doomed them was execution in the playoffs – not talent.
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
I think you may have misunderstood me. I agree but..
I just think shaqfor3 is putting all of the blame on Lebron when it should go to everyone. It is a team game. In football you blame it on the qb so in basketball I guess you blame it on the star.
not at all
what I am trying to say is that the lack of a supporting cast excuse doesnt fly when a team wins 60+ games and when all the critics/ analysts are picking them to win the ship.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
I agree
Lebron should have raised his level of play as Wade did for us in 06. If he was “The King” he should have put the team on his back and acted like it. But now he has superstar player to defer to so it doesn’t really matter. And it is obvious now that he will never be MJ because people seem to forget that MJ had great players on his team. I think what people resent most is how the team was constructed and the whole “decision” thing (which I also was against)
by #1Heatfan on Jul 20, 2010 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But I still don't think he should take the fall, it is on the entire team, the coaching staff, everybody. No one has won a title by himself.
He had some talent around him, but I just think he needed one more complementary scorerer. Just my opinion
what
Boston beat the cavs the same way they beat the Heat. Focus all attention on James and Wade and make the other guys beat you. Good luck with that game plan next year suckas
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
and I guess the supporting cast then (by your theory) lost to the Cs in 6…If it was truly the type of supporting cast that people think it is when they say “lebron had no supporting cast” they should have been swept realistically…and I am guessing the supporting cast may have won game 5 without lebron taking 15 bad shots.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
No i watched the game
And i don’t really know how to explain it. It did look like he quit, but just put yourself in his shoes for one moment. He just found out this lepricuan looking mother f’er has been doing his mom. Thats a bridge you just don’t cross. And for the people that think just because he gets paid millions of dollars he shouldn’t let that affect him, well i guess you have never been in that situation. I would like to personaly thank delonte west for making this all happen,
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
Bross is an idiot ignore him.
He thinks no one has bad games in the playoffs. Kobe had three terrible games like that this post-season.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
That came off a little harsh.
You get the point. ;
Nothing personal dude, I just dislike Cleveland. ;)
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
so you use an ad hominem attack through your personal bias against a city as an argument?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Yeah I should have said most Cleveland fans are idiots instead.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
*I don't think you're stupid though, just jilted.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
ehh…at least thank you for correcting yourself. Maybe most cleveland fans are stupid, but I think a lot of fans in most cities are…
I do not have an emotional attachment anymore to lebron. I am maybe a bit upset somewhere that he still left, but I am not at all spiteful or callous about it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
They do have talent
but I think they lacked that legit #2 (Williams is a great #3). I thought Jamison would be that guy, but it turns out he was not
You don't have to think Mo Williams lacked talent.
He did play poorly, it isn’t arguable.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes LeBron's 38/8/8 doomed Cleveland in the playoffs?
Sorry that’s Bull.
I’m glad he has a better cast now in Miami so these stupid Laker fans can shut up, as well as these other intangible people.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You're not even a Heat fan
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he averaged 16 points and 5 assists per game
thats a pretty legitimate 2nd option and at times he did carry the cavs when he was on fire. He may not be as great as other 2nd options in this league, but he’s still good enough especially considering that he had the best player in the game by his side.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Wow you're not very sharp.
He shot 8 percent below his average, and took more minutes a game to average the same volume of points.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Mo Williams that is.
Nice of you to ignore West and Z playing like garbage too.
So let’s see, that’s Mo, West, Z playing like trash. Varejao couldn’t defend Howard.
That’s game dude.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Posey
Its about when you hit the shot and not how many you make. In 06 in the playoffs Posey wouldn’t take a shot all game but at the end with the game close he wasn’t afraid to shoot the ball. He was a big difference even though he averaged 4 pts a game
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
He is a great #2 in the regular season but is more like a #3 in the playoffs. Jamison like I think you (or someone else) said was supposed to be the #2 but he was more also of the #3 and never really fit in the offense last year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
He wasn’t. Jamison was. If you consider Mo the #3 (similar to Kukoc) than he is very good.
those role players look much better than they were. But I could be wrong.
Nope. These guys got more open looks so they shot a bit better, but if you look at their PERs compared to before they joined the cavs, they aren’t much different. Some even dropped. They were not as productive when with lebron and the better shooting #s from open looks didn’t make up for it.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
And Pippen's PER increased when Jordan was gone.
You don’t know jack about the NBA and PER correlations.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
well…that was pippen playing a different role and being the star. Mo williams and Jamison were not filling that smaller of roles on their team…they were not taking less shots. Per minute, shots taken did not change, which helps to show that on offense, their role was somewhat similar. Pippen was taking a lot more shots and a much larger role on offense the one year that he didn’t have jordan in chicago…his role was a larger role to the team so his PER did increase which is not a surprise and doesn’t prove anything.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Blah blah,
Jordan’s Bulls own the LeBron less cavs. They got better on D. Michael wasn’t the defender LeBron is.
Unless you can prove this is a weird trend, this is meaningless drivel.
Higher usage rate = higher PER. It is natural. Playing with a star like Jordan takes MORE usage rate away from you.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you really believe Lebron is a better defender than Jordan?
It is still a team game and the 90’s Bulls were expertly coached by Phil Jackson. That may have some impact on a team’s defensive metric.
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
Oh believe me I know.
It was all addressed here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7010
The Bulls got even better on Defense, proven objectively.
I don’t think a lot of Defensive awards are reputable either. Certainly some seasons, but they’re just based off popularity as well.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
actually. In the season in question, Pippen had
-His highest Usage % of his career
-His highest PER of his whole career
-Most shots per 36 minutes from the field
-Most FTs shot per 36 minutes
-Most points per 36 minutes
-Most Rebounds per 36
-Most steals per 36
The next season, ‘94-’95, jordan only played 17 games. I did not catch this because i was noticing it seemed like pippen had the same role. He DID.
In that season, he had his 2nd best season of his career in rebounds, steals, points, FTs attempted, Usage, PER, and was third by .1 in shots attempted.
This shows statistically, that in every facet of his game, pippen took on more responsibility and a new role. The most logical explanation for the sudden spike in free throw attempts would be a sudden increase in driving into the lane and taking fouls. This was a role mostly handled by Jordan who was their main penetrator, but Pippen took on more of a role.
PER shows, combined with everything else, that he did more per minute on offense. His usage percentage went up so it shows that he was more involved in the Offense. The steals may mean that he took on Michael’s role as THE defender too.
The only key stat that didn’t significantly increase was passing. He still passed the ball but not as much. This can easily be explained. The Bulls added several players who were excellent passers. After Jordan left, they added Pete Myers, Tony Kukoc, and steve Kerr. All 3 were excellent passers before and after they played for the bulls. With Kerr, Myers, and Armstrong, they had 3 guards who were all efficient passers and Kukoc was a great passer at forward…so it is understandable that those years, he would pass less because Phil didn’t need him to pass as much.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Deepest team in the league the past two years
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 23, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No that would be LA.
Where Kobe can choke a game 7 badly and still win on Pau’s back.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
You dont watch basketball do you
Do you not recall every single commentator saying Cleveland was the deepest team? LAL only had 6 players
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So when it's convenient,
you change the facts?
I thought earlier in this thread, it was established that Lebron had no supporting cast.
Now, they’re the deepest team in the league?
Okay.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, 25% shooting in Game 7 and won a title this year.
40% shooting for the series.
29% shooting in the last 12 fourth quarters of the Finals.
38 PPG 54 FG% against the Magic in 2009, for the “choker”.
Gtfo with that hate.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
you know that no one on here at all mentioned Kobe but because you hate him so much you had to bring him up…How many other SBN websites do you troll on.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
he trolled on the site I usually hang out on
and got banned.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
If pointing out Kobe's chokes is considered trolling...
I was DEFIINITELY trolling the LA place. They don’t allow you to post links to basketball-reference that show Kobe getting owned.
I have no allegiance to LA I can say whatever I want about them here. I only care about the Heat.
Cleveland and La can suck it.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Kobe didn't choke
he had one bad game, something he hadn’t had the entire playoffs after getting his knee drained. If you are a shooter, sometimes your shots don’t fall. Ask Ray Allen about game 3. The reason Kobe’s teammates were able to excel is that all of the Celtics defensive attention was payed to him. Elongating the game by taking advantage of the tired Celtics defense by getting to the line 15 times and rebounding 15 times is finding a way to win and shows how good he is.
Also, I’m tired of all the talk about Kobe’s teammates. Fisher does a lot of good, but his defense also does a lot of bad. He is only on the Lakers out of respect for Kobe. Artest joined the Lakers because of his respect for Kobe. When was the last time anyone significant joined Lebron’s team out of respect for him and his determination? Gasol went from really good to best in the NBA playing with Kobe, and Bynum was nothing but a huge project who played hurt because he saw Kobe do the same. If Bynum was on the Cavs he would’ve tried shooting free throws left handed.
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."--Cormican on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
Wow, you're mature.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You're not even a Heat fan
Youre just a fan boy of LeBron
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh btw, this is a Heat site.
I can’t “troll” LA over here genius.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I might be wrong, but I think he mentioned Kobe to show that even when Kobe doesn't play well, he has a great supporting cast that can still win games.
this doesn’t have anything to do with this thread, but Kobe’s cast is really outstanding when you think about it. He has a great #2 in Gasol then he has Odom, Artest, and Bynum that can be great #3’s on any given night
yes, this has nothing to do with the thread…just like Kobe having a very good supporting cast right now has nothing to do with him calling Kobe a choker.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Supporting cast has everything to do with this thread.
He has a lower bar for his guy.
He’s here to complain, well prepare for the criticism.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
uhhh what does Kobe have to do with this??
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
You bitching like a hypocrite.
Your double standard is obvious.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you going to complain about me "trolling" again?
Your mod over there is a coward btw. He said I’m not allowed to post anti-Kobe stuff basically.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact over "there" I was much more polite.
I made it clear to the mod, I don’t want to insult anyone just attack Kobe’s credibility.
He would not allow me to do that. It was fun though, but some places are backwards. You can be a little more loose here towards posters, but if you go to another team’s site they can ban you for saying Kobe sucks, here’s why:
And then this is the part where I would link a blog from BR. It isn’t my blog or site, so it wasn’t advertising either. The LA guy is just a coward, simple as that.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
you were banned because you were basically posting the same weak redundant arguements
and for trying to stir up trouble/ acting condescending towards posters which basically makes you a troll. Do you honestly think they care that Kobe shot 25% in game 7? No. Because at the end of the day we won the damn trophy. Its a LAKER BLOG. Not everything is about Kobe. We care about wins, not individual stats. No one stays up late at night obsessing about what Kobe shot in the 2008 finals like you do. And contrary to what you think, stats have importance to us. We use them to evaluate how the team performed in a game (ex Points per possession, turnover rate, etc) We just dont use them to the unhealthy extreme like you do, because nothing comes easy when you face a top notch defensive team in a game 7.
And then you have the nerve for calling the mod over there a coward. Coward for what? Maybe because he doesnt like people like you spewing your useless garbage on his blog?
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
Hah yeah right.
you were banned because you were basically posting the same weak redundant arguements
Oh you mean in contrast to your powerful, Kobe didn’t choke because you said so, argument (very common in the Laker nation)?
What “Weak” arguments did I mention?
and for trying to stir up trouble/ acting condescending towards posters which basically makes you a troll.
Oh I was definitely condescending, towards Kobe Bryant. I wrecked him, because he deserves to get called out.
“trying to stir up trouble”
Wtf is this by the way? How am I stirring up trouble? By saying Kobe chokes? Face it, your mods are cowards over there. I attacked Kobe, not the posters. I can have whatever attitude I want, but I wasn’t being vulgar towards the actual people there. I cursed maybe once in dozens of posts, hah.
And your board is soft. I should be able to troll a public figure, that’s a ridiculous rule. They should be up for criticism, we’re not in fucking Cuba. What mods should enforce are ad hominem attacks, personal attacks that might get too vulgar and to radical. Your pathetic blog is ultra sensitive.
I would love to debate your amazing mods.
Do you honestly think they care that Kobe shot 25% in game 7? No. Because at the end of the day we won the damn trophy. Its a LAKER BLOG. Not everything is about Kobe.
Well gee, if you call him the Clutch God, then yes you should care.
Maybe in your opinion, but the geniuses I was talking with were diehard Kobe defenders. Remember I was talking to dozens of people that got all touchy about Kobe, not just LA.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, I was talking about so many different games, seasons, intangibles and in that thread. Maybe you got your feelings hurt by my nice little graph though, oh well. You focused on that for some reason. I covered a wide range of subjects in other words, it wasn’t “redundant”. Sure I posted some link 2-3 times, I also had a very varied discussion.
We care about wins, not individual stats.
No this isn’t about you, this is about the discussion I had with others. I hope this is clear now.
No one stays up late at night obsessing about what Kobe shot in the 2008 finals like you do
Haha all I did was copy some url, I don’t have to stay up all night for anything. In fact that was the FIRST time I’ve ever posted there. Nice try.
Btw I said last 12 fourth quarters chokejobs. I didn’t do any research for the 08 Finals, lol. Popcorn machine has the game flows anyway I don’t have to calculate jack. All this “research” business, is just easy reading. Neil Paine does the calculating, and other people.
And contrary to what you think, stats have importance to us. We use them to evaluate how the team performed in a game (ex Points per possession, turnover rate, etc) We just dont use them to the unhealthy extreme like you do,
“We”? Speak for yourself, there were a bunch of delusional fans defending just Kobe Bryant with just mindless individual stats.
Stop complaining about the “tough” Defenses too. What a bad argument, it was people like you praising Kobe during the Suns series and then slurping up his chokes against the Celtics at the same time, and forgiving him. Maybe you should look up defensive SRS and other basic crucial stats?
And then you have the nerve for calling the mod over there a coward. Coward for what?
Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of a forum I can call the Lakers pathetic, garbage, trash, say Kobe’s a loser and a terrible player. As long as I don’t insult people personally with vulgarities, then it should be fine. They are public figures, not actual posters in the forum.
Maybe because he doesnt like people like you spewing your useless garbage on his blog?
Ah there you have it. He doesn’t “like” what I have to say and it is “his” blog. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to “troll” a professional basketball player’s career. When did they become immune from criticism? And I made it very clear to the guy, if you want me to use clean language or whatever that’s fine.
But I’m definitely not going to agree with whatever they were saying. I’ve used some words like “idiot, moron” etc recently. But normally those are superfluous words and are not needed in a debate. Personal attacks are unnecessary, but banning me because I wouldn’t agree with them is stupid.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh you mean in contrast to your powerful, Kobe didn’t choke because you said so, argument (very common in the Laker nation)?
What "Weak" arguments did I mention?
I dont know, maybe posting the same empty stats without explanation. Saying basketball reference says this so it must be true at least 392 times. No clear argument at all.
Oh I was definitely condescending, towards Kobe Bryant. I wrecked him, because he deserves to get called out.
"trying to stir up trouble"
Wtf is this by the way? How am I stirring up trouble? By saying Kobe chokes? Face it, your mods are cowards over there. I attacked Kobe, not the posters. I can have whatever attitude I want, but I wasn’t being vulgar towards the actual people there. I cursed maybe once in dozens of posts, hah.
And your board is soft. I should be able to troll a public figure, that’s a ridiculous rule. They should be up for criticism, we’re not in fucking Cuba. What mods should enforce are ad hominem attacks, personal attacks that might get too vulgar and to radical. Your pathetic blog is ultra sensitive.
I would love to debate your amazing mods.
If you want to “troll” do it on your own site. Dont come to a Lakers blog and do it. We are welcome to posters from other sites, but all I saw you doing was posting a bunch of random and obscure stats without explanation or anything and saying its true because thats what basketball reference says. I could care less if you like Kobe. It’s just not respectful to post on our blog when your sole purpose is to harass people with tired, incorrect babble that doesnt have any significance to the post or topic. And thats why you got banned.
Well gee, if you call him the Clutch God, then yes you should care.
Maybe in your opinion, but the geniuses I was talking with were diehard Kobe defenders. Remember I was talking to dozens of people that got all touchy about Kobe, not just LA.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, I was talking about so many different games, seasons, intangibles and in that thread. Maybe you got your feelings hurt by my nice little graph though, oh well. You focused on that for some reason. I covered a wide range of subjects in other words, it wasn’t "redundant". Sure I posted some link 2-3 times, I also had a very very varied discussion.
Clutch God? Oh I get it, a few people think that so you might as well go ahead and assume thats what everyone else thinks, yeah that’s a logical statement there. “I posted the link 2-3 times” Uhhh yeah thats what makes it redundant, which is why people get tired of your crap and ban you.
No this isn’t about you, this is about the discussion I had with others. I hope this is clear now.
Once again, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the win. Individual player stats have little bearing to most Laker fans (including the ones I talk to on that blog) when it comes to winning or losing.
Haha all I did was copy some url, I don’t have to stay up all night for anything. In fact that was the FIRST time I’ve ever posted there. Nice try.
Btw I said last 12 fourth quarters chokejobs. I didn’t do any research for the 08 Finals, lol. Popcorn machine has the game flows anyway I don’t have to calculate jack. All this "research" business, is just easy reading. Neil Paine does the calculating, and other people.
Well thats all you talked about. Didnt contribute anything meaningful to the post except a bunch of obscure figures that again had no significance to the discussion.
Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of a forum I can call the Lakers pathetic, garbage, trash, say Kobe’s a loser and a terrible player. As long as I don’t insult people personally with vulgarities, then it should be fine. They are public figures, not actual posters in the forum.
Uhhh no it isnt. Thats what trolling is. Making ridiculous statements to incite or create a reaction. Im sure people here wouldn’t welcome me coming here and saying “LeBron is a quitter” or “Bosh is worthless trash.” It even says it in our terms and agreements:
SSR: If you come in here just trying to stir up trouble, making comments to try to bait or incite, or making generally ridiculous statements along the lines of “Kobe’s worthless,” you will be ignored. If you keep it up for no reason, you will be made to leave.
Ah there you have it. He doesn’t "like" what I have to say and it is "his" blog. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to "troll" a professional basketball player’s career. When did they become immune from criticism? And I made it very clear to the guy, if you want me to use clean language or whatever that’s fine.
But I’m definitely not going to agree with whatever they were saying. I’ve used some words like "idiot, moron" etc recently. But normally those are superfluous words and are not needed in a debate. Personal attacks are unnecessary, but banning me because I wouldn’t agree with them is stupid.
he didnt “like” it because it was re-stated over and over again without explanation in an attempt to draw a hostile reaction.
Anyway Im done arguing with you. Goodbye.
Adam Morrison has more rings than Lebron, Bosh, and Wade combined?
It wasn’t “empty”. That’s just false for the most part. Nearly everything was explained.
I mentioned that while Kobe was gagging in the Finals for instance, Shaq was averaging 35 and 14 on 58% shooting. He got carried to his three titles. And he won his last one very ugly. He has just two Finals MVPs and they’re not all that impressive to me. I don’t think he was even the second or third best player in the 2010 season.
I discussed various things.
and saying its true because thats what basketball reference says. I could care less if you like Kobe. It’s just not respectful to post on our blog when your sole purpose is to harass people with tired,
Wrong, your mod is not too bright because what does he expect when dozens of people are asking me things? It wasn’t a one vs one thing, so the redundant part is over-stated on your part.
“Harass”, you mean disagree? Again you and your sensitive ilk. I can disagree with as many people as I desire. My goal is to post whatever I want, while trying to be respectful enough.
Now if someone tells me: “Hey dude, don’t call him an idiot ever again, or don’t ever say moron”, then I agree that is what a mod is for. A mod is supposed to control personal attacks (or set the boundary for what specific words are acceptable), not dictate what I can and can not disagree with. That’s Cuba stuff to me.
It wasn’t like I was going back there too many times, lol. I posted in just one thread.
incorrect babble that doesnt have any significance to the post or topic. And thats why you got banned.
When I use objective evidence I’m not using “incorrect” babble, I’m reporting the news dude. Reality in other words. BBR isn’t Screwkobe.org., or silver screen and roll, it doesn’t care about anyone if just analyzes in a cold manner.
Even a fool can understand the basic raw stats Kobe choked in, in this year’s Finals.
Clutch God? Oh I get it, a few people think that so you might as well go ahead and assume thats what everyone else thinks, yeah that’s a logical statement there.
Oh you don’t think so? Congratulations.
That’s not what I was told by every person there. Again you’re speaking for yourself.
"I posted the link 2-3 times" Uhhh yeah thats what makes it redundant, which is why people get tired of your crap and ban you.
Wow you can’t get that I was talking to people who kept repeating the same questions? Why do you think I kept saying, “don’t ask me again”? They insisted in most cases. “Oh what’s win shares? I don’t know what that is?” And thus I posted a chart with PER instead. A pretty common barometer now.
Way to mislead there buddy. Btw I was given a warning you know? Are you aware of this? When this occurred I stopped all my side-discussions and had an exchange with the mod. i told him I was not going to insult anyone , just have discussions about Kobe’s chokes. He still went off like a coward though. He didn’t care he just mindlessly banned me.
I was having a very precise argument about the Atlanta Hawks also, and that’s what got me from warning to banned? Face it he just couldn’t deal with all the anti-kobe stuff. I made it VERY clear I didn’t want to insult anyone. Like I said I was better behaved there than over here.
Once again, at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the win. Individual player stats have little bearing to most Laker fans (including the ones I talk to on that blog) when it comes to winning or losing.
Who cares? You’re trying to frame it like it is about you.
No it wasn’t. I talked to various people that cared about the individual, not just team.
Well thats all you talked about. Didnt contribute anything meaningful to the post except a bunch of obscure figures that again had no significance to the discussion.
Haha wrong. I posted raw PPG, APG, etc. Any fool can understand what I was saying. Your mods freaked out.
Uhhh no it isnt. Thats what trolling is. Making ridiculous statements to incite or create a reaction. Im sure people here wouldn’t welcome me coming here and saying "LeBron is a quitter" or "Bosh is worthless trash." It even says it in our terms and agreements:
And tell me where I made some outlandish remark? I said Kobe is inferior to LeBron. And applying the LeBron standards, this, this ,and this is true about Kobe. Which it was. If you’re going to criticize James be prepared for me to identify double standards. And if you don’t agree with me, tough. That’s not what trolling is. Especially when I was in “nice” mode.
Interesting, so what is the threshold for choking in the playoffs then, if 29% in fourth quarters doesn’t qualify? I mean I back up my statements with facts.
he didnt "like" it because it was re-stated over and over again without explanation in an attempt to draw a hostile reaction.Anyway Im done arguing with you. Goodbye.
Major flaw in your ideas, I was an angel after I was “warned”.
There’s nothing to argue about, you clearly have little knowledge about the details in that thread.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
still, man, listen to yourself. you sound like a troll to me.
lots of insulting angry emotional tones. i don’t know, you have problems? emotional or mental? (and, no, that’s not an insult. just asking. so, if you rage that would show you have.)
kobe bryant=batman
by bernel on Jul 26, 2010 4:25 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm condescending, does that count? FWIW, I think you're an unstable troll and insane.
Laker fans are some of the dumbest fans in Sports.
And lol at your stupid fanbase, I have “hate” in general because I dislike your team? Nah man.
I just don’t think you’re very bright. I can prove it easily. .Why am I a troll? Define it for me, without artistic expressions.
Give me an example?
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
You know this is just a screenname on the internet right?
Lol are you scared or something?
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
After you were 'warned', you replied by implying the blog was facist.
Angelic, indeed.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
holy crap let it go
The 2 of you are arguing over some stupid shit that happened in the past.
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Well you can't really argue about what happened in the FUTURE can you?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
We're supposedly cowards, yet you're posting this here...
You know we all have fully accessible email accounts next to our user names?
Oh, and not to mention coming back with other account names?
I banned you, for several infractions.
Directly quoted from the rules:
If you want to come in and talk negatively about the Lakers, fine. But be ready to back your shit up with evidence. If you come in here just trying to stir up trouble, making comments to try to bait or incite, or making generally ridiculous statements along the lines of “Kobe’s worthless,” you will be ignored. If you keep it up for no reason, you will be made to leave.– Self-explanatory.
But that was only worth a warning. But then…
Thou shalt respect the wishes of the admins and moderators
This is more of a catch-all than an actual rule, because it would be impossible to list out every type of negative scenario we wish to avoid. Sufficed to say, if one of our fine authors or moderators ask you to do something, like say drop an argument that’s going nowhere, or stay away from using a certain phrase, just do it.
When asked by another moderator to cut it out, you responded by dismissing his request and implying he was facist, hence the ban.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude you're a coward. I went back and said all this to your face, abnd someone deleted it.
Look it up, I explained the exact same thing but some coward deleted my post.
No I was not vulgar at all so that’s BS on your account.
When asked by another moderator to cut it out, you responded by dismissing his request and implying he was facist, hence the ban.
No you’re an idiot, I said I will continue to criticize Kobe with my facts. He said I was “stirring up trouble”.
Yeah by exposing what a choke artist Kobe is.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Facts = objective figures that any fool can understand.
I remember being called an idiot various times, when I was making a serious post.
Please don’t play any of that victim bull.
If it was the other way around I would be man enough to let you talk. It makes no difference to me what is said about an NBA player.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Just to clarify, in all fairness.
I don’t recall which mod in particular it was that did that, so you could be innocent.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah I see the awkward rule now.
This is more of a catch-all than an actual rule, because it would be impossible to list out every type of negative scenario we wish to avoid. Sufficed to say, if one of our fine authors or moderators ask you to do something, like say drop an argument that’s going nowhere, or stay away from using a certain phrase, just do it.
Ok listen to yourself , whenever he disagrees I have to shut up? Tell me how this is helping you? That’s some pretty sketchy stuff.
Again, show me these “weak” arguments. Unsubstantiated arguments.
I’ll say that your mod ignored that I was discussing something with various people. They were also upset but I was doing it objectively and using their standards. If it upsets them, tough. I an being neutral in my analysis, although I favor James. Your mod is the one acting like a fascist. He’s done nothing to suggest otherwise, because he won’t have a logical discussion with me using metrics.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't tell us what we should and should not do.
And your board is soft. I should be able to troll a public figure, that’s a ridiculous rule. They should be up for criticism, we’re not in fucking Cuba. What mods should enforce are ad hominem attacks, personal attacks that might get too vulgar and to radical. Your pathetic blog is ultra sensitive.
If it’s a pathetic blog, why did you visit? And why did you come back with two seperate accounts after being banned? Each account takes 5 minutes to set up, plus setting up the email address, meanwhile takes 10 seconds to ban – waste of your time.
Clearly you don’t understand the purpose of a forum I can call the Lakers pathetic, garbage, trash, say Kobe’s a loser and a terrible player. As long as I don’t insult people personally with vulgarities, then it should be fine. They are public figures, not actual posters in the forum.
- And actually, technically all SBN sites are blogs, not forums. I assume you’re smart enough to know the difference. It is a blog, run by Chris, with the help of Dex, Wondah, myself and Gil. There are published rules, and it is the mods’ job to enforce the rules. That’s been done so. You may have a different perception of what should and should not be a rule on a blog, that’s fine. Go create your own blog.
I would love to debate your amazing mods.
I gave you all your SBN warnings for SSR, and I banned the account you’re commenting on on this thread. Feel free to email me if you have any queries, my email account is on my profile specifically so that members (or ex-members) can contact me.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I won't reply to you at all here, I rarely visit PIM.
Too many bandwagoners (not necessarily saying you’re one). You can find my email, you can email me.
Kobe Bryant's no Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant.
"Lebron joins teams with his friends; Kobe’s enemies join teams with him." - Gil Meriken
by Saurav A. Das on Jul 26, 2010 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Just curious does everyone consider a new member to this blog a bandwagoner?
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Feeling guilty?
It is ok, you’re forgiven. ; )
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll tell you whatever I want, you don't own me. This is a Heat blog.
If it’s a pathetic blog, why did you visit?
Because who knew you were so sensitive?
And why did you come back with two seperate accounts after being banned? Each account takes 5 minutes to set up, plus setting up the email address, meanwhile takes 10 seconds to ban – waste of your time.
To call you out for being a coward. :)
I haven’t wasted much time on you, don’t worry.
I gave you all your SBN warnings for SSR, and I banned the account you’re commenting on on this thread. Feel free to email me if you have any queries, my email account is on my profile specifically so that members (or ex-members) can contact me.
I don’t have anything to hide from the public, discuss everything here.
See when one is right, one won’t feel all secretive like you.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I concede that Lebron will neer be Jordan and that he had a good enough supporting cast.
But people forget how outstanding Jordan’s supporting cast was. He had Pippen for crying out loud, a fellow top 50 player of all time. Remember, the year after Jordan retired the first time. The Bulls still won 55 games (if memory serves, they were one game away from the finals). So, while the Cavs have talent, I doubt that they will win 55 games this season. But like I said, we will see, and I could be proven wrong. I also admit that Mo Williams is a very good pg (I don’t think he is a good enough 2nd option, but thats just me), you cannot compare him to Pippen. I just hate when people want to compare everyone to MJ because they never take into account the situation. They always want to compare them individually, but then say MJ won more rings (If thats the rational, shouldn’t Bill Rusell be the best ever?). Well, he didn’t win all those rings by himself. If you put Lebron on the Bulls of the 90’s, they just might get all those chamionships. However, I do think MJ is the best ever, I just get fustrated with the comparisons.
Pippen is a HOFer.
Mo Williams is not a very good pg, that’s one of the reasons they won’t touch 50 wins.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
touch 50 wins?
Im thinking along the lines of the Nets. They might not get 20 wins.
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
really? that team won’t get 20? Lebron is not 40 wins by himself. This team will surprise a lot of people and could quite possibly win 40 games.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Lets be realistic
I know your a Cavs fan but 20- 30 is what they are looking at this season. You just said yourself that Mo Williams is a #3 (in the playoffs), and he might be the Cavs best player this season. Mo Williams couldn’t lead the Bucks to the playoffs a few years ago with an above average center and Redd (he wasn’t always healthy). Who is gonna help him? Yes, expect Jamison to play a little better this year, but it won’t be enough. In my opinion, the Cavs would be beter served cleaning house and start rebuilding around JJ Hickson (I think he has a ton of potential) and draft picks. It is better to rebuild than be stuck as a mid- level team.
I agree they would be better building around JJ. I think he breaks out and has a 15-9 kind of year. However, the cavs can run the byron scott offense well. JJ was actually solid when playing center, and if you can get Mo, JJ, and Antwan all on the floor, plus jamario moon as a perimeter defender and anthony parker, that is at minimum a 30 win team. I look at the cavs roster as it is, and I think we are still better than a lot of teams that will do poorly…Toronto I believe will win like 15 games…they have hedo, bargniani and no one else on O.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Maybe less by your logic – Hedo got shipped to Phoenix :)
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
oh. I didn’t even hear about that…good catch…
So now they have 2 guards coming off injury plagued seasons…and then Bargniani. Its a decent deal. Barbosa is a good player, he has just not lived up to the expectations his play made in 2007.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Turk is in Phoenix now?
Thats sounds like a nice move. Who did they lose to get him?
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Leonardo Barbosa – Hedo may do well playing off of Nash – couldn’t do worse than last season.
I think he is vastly overrated but he is a “Phoenix” sort of player – all offense and suspect defense…
Too old to be paid what he is getting, Hedo is lucky his agent became the Suns GM after Kerr left…
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
"You show me one team, one GM, one person, one organization that wouldn't jump at the opportunity to take a Chris Bosh, a LeBron James, a Dwyane Wade together, and I'll show you a liar." - Dwyane Wade
I have always liked watching him play since Sacramento.
but yea I agree his defense has always been suspect.
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Wasnt he an All star in 09?
oh yeah he was
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lebron played at MVP level in 2009, even in the playoffs.
No he didn’t have a “cast” against Orlando. Which is all that matters
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=2607
If you’re going to complain about individual production, look at Miami’s SPM.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 21, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What if...
Lebron averages 27 PPG 10 AST 11 RBS a game this year…would he still pale in comparison to other greats??
or what if he goes for 30 PPG 11AST 9 RBS a game…what then??
You guys just love to hate on the guy, but the hatred just shows that the Heat are doing something right.
Jealousy is a female trait. So stop being a B****.
by Cruelgamez04 on Jul 22, 2010 12:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
27 or 30 pts a game
James has the most to sacrifice but he also has the most to gain. He won’t be the leading scorer but im thinking 12 ast and 10 reb sounds right. He is not a selfish player and he loves to set people up. damn i can’t wait till the season starts
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
NO COMPARISON AT ALL...
MICHAEL JORDAN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME!
Nobody can ever be at par or surpass him. Nobody. Not DWade. Not LeBron. NOT EVEN KOBE BRYANT. NEVER KOBE BRYANT!
MJ23 and LBJ6 have different playing styles. So there is no comparison.
This is coming from a Heat fan.
LET’S GO HEAT! BEAT LA! BEAT LA! BEAT LA!
My thoughts
Lebron Coming to the Heat takes him out of the G.O.A.T. convo and puts D- WADE in it. This is WADE’s team and he should get credit for the rings he brings home too.If the Heat win 3-4 rings in the next five years i think Wade will be mentioned as a GOAT and rightfully so. Lebron became the greatest sidekick ever by coming to Miami. He will win that argument hands down and Scottie Pippen will never compare if its any consolation prize.
by bettacalltyrone on Jul 23, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
Wow you're a moron.
Pippen was never a better scorer than Jordan or able to win a Finals MVP. Wade hasn’t been to the second round in years, and LeBron has an edge on all future awards.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol at these people.
And what if LeBron wins 4 Finals MVPs? The hate is ugly I see.
Let’s be clear, Shaq’s rings are worth more than Kobe’s rings. It is the playoff MVP that matters. You can have one less ring and still be considered better. Shaq and Duncan, over other players with 5 rings, come to mind. Now of course we needed to see what actually happens, but I do think LeBron’s age will trump over anything else. And relatively healthier body usually.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
D-Wade has done more for his team than Lebron has done for his
Lebron got the MVP but he also had a better team in Cleveland. Miami has been rebuilding for years. Actually ever since they won the championship Wade has played with a bunch of young players and old vets with nothing left. Not a LeBron hater. But i have more respect for D- Wade and him being able to get his team into the playoffs period. And the point i was trying to make is that the Heat are D-Wades team and i think it needs to stay that way in order for the Heat to succeed and egos not get in the way. Therefore when they win I think D-Wade needs to to get the credit. The statement that Lebron is a better scorer is arguable. I personally think that he is just the better finisher. i mean lets be honest Lebron is the best athlete in the NBA but obviously not the best player or he wouldve had a ring by now. But the only thing that matters now is that The Heat should be the Best team.
but im still a net fan regardless
not proud just honest
by bettacalltyrone on Jul 27, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
well said
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Hey it is cool with me if you like Wade more.
Some people like Wade more, I like LeBron more.
I respect both, we’ll let time decide this debate. : ]
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me clarify though.
LeBron is a better scorer, I don’t think it is even arguable.
27.8 PPG, third all time. And in a slower paced era which is even more impressive.
by agradecimiento a dios on Aug 5, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
To be GOAT, you have to play like GOAT and win.
It isn’t just about titles, or stats. Both.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hah double standard!
"Some people think they should go to heaven but NOT have to die to get there.
Sorry, but that’s simply not how it works."
"This is America, if we can’t self-righteously look down on others and blame them for our faults, the commies win."--Cormican on Aug 13, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
Uh no.
I think James will win rings and most playoff accolades.
Single standard! ; )
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
wth
people need to quit thinking of sidekicks, batman and robin, and start thinking of the Justice League. On any given night someone will step up and be the hero.
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
James managed to do so in only his fourth year in the league with David Wesley being the team’s second best player (or maybe Damon Jones was, tough call).
did you just look at some of the names and throw a dart at one? These guys were the last guys on the Cavs bench. Cavs had solid players like Z or Larry Hughes. It wasn’t a great team, but it was a team full of good role players…
Plus, if you look at the NBA, the NBA that year was just very weak. The cavs pulled an upset of a team that right now would not make it to the Conference Finals (the Pistons). The league was depleted of talent but since then has been injected with great young talent.
This is a terrible way to justify Lebron>Michael
Michael Jordan never had to call up those superstars to join his squad because the Chicago Bulls organization surrounded MJ with all the talent in the world to win countless championships.
and the cavs surrounded him with no talent…whether you meant it or not that was the implication and it just isn’t true.
But the NBA’s top duo just wasn’t enough talent, so Chicago went out and traded for seven time NBA All-Defensive First Team and two time Defensive Player of the Year Dennis Rodman. With the Bulls Rodman averaged roughly 15.5 rebounds per game.
…because the cavs never went out and got guys for Lebron. Jamison is still an excellent player and was when he was traded for. Shaq was still a defensive presence and Mo was better than Kukoc, or Kerr, or whatever guard shooting specialist the Bulls had. The cavs, like those Bulls teams, had a lot of guys coming off the bench that could start on other teams (like Jamario Moon, Hickson, Andy Varejao, Boobie Gibson, and Delonte). The cavs were even deeper than the Bulls and had almost as much starpower…Jordan was just better I guess.
Not to mention, when Jordan retired for the 93′-94′ season, the Bulls managed to win 55 games without the legend, making it to the second round of the playoffs.
So? This is irrelevant until we see the Cavs without lebron…but they already lost more than Lebron because they lost Z and Shaq and Jamison is another year older…but they still could win 45…but what does that prove? That maybe Z and shaq added 3-4 wins and the lakers supporting cast was 5-6 wins better? It proves very little.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
by bross09 on Jul 23, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Can you please answer this with a yes or no
Are you saying that the Cavs supporting cast is as good as the one Jordan had? Which included a top 50 player, one of the top rebounders/ defenders, and good shooters.
Also
Who is going to help Mo Williams and Jamison (I guess) get to 45 wins? Please do not say Delonte West. I mean, I really like Hickson, but I don’t know if he can play a big role this year, and if he does, he is undersized at the center position. So, he would have to play pf. Then where would Jamison play?
a resounding NO.
Toni Kukoc was a special 6th man.
Dennis Rodman was a defensive beast, With Jordan and Pippen, there was no need to be an offensive option.
Luc Longley was in his prime. A powerful body to get rebounds and putbacks.
Ron Harper ( A FORMER CAVALIER) was a decent all around player.
Steve Kerr (A FORMER CAVALIER) was a 3-point specialist.
Bill Wennington was a smart backup center.
Brian Williams was a bulldozer who could do the pick and roll and hold his ground on defense.
Jud Buechler, Dickey Simpkins, and Randy Brown did good on preserving leads.
Jordan’s 1991-1993 Title Teams were better.
LeBron’s Cavaliers team…
Shaq – a very old washed up shadow of his once dominant self who can’t stay healthy.
Antawn Jamison – lost himself on the team. couldn’t even make his usual jumpshots
Delonte West – inconsistent on both sides of the ball
Maurice Williams – good but not good enough
JJ HIckson – Hhhhmmm… not used well
Anderson Varejao (VAREHAW, not VAREYJAW) – a poor man’s Dennis Rodman
Daniel Gibson – was a 1-hit wonder with his lost 3 point shooting. could’ve been Cavs’ steve kerr
jamario moon – more suited for the harlem globetrotters and all-star slam dunk competition
the rest? FORGET THEM
Forgot their starting 2 guard idiot
Anthony Parker
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
really why the personal attacks bro.
Too far, quit trying to start shit.
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official KS-22 clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Dennis Rodman was a defensive beast
yes, and Andy Varejao is a scrub on Defense. He may not be the rebounder Rodman was but he is all of the Defender rodman was.
Ron Harper was nothing special…but he was not a better player at that point (at least by any significant amount) than moon is.
We have our 3 point specialist in Boobie. I guess you ignored last season when he shot 48% almost from 3. He had an average season in 2009, but he was also battling injuries the whole season and shooting for a while with a broken finger in his hand (I believe that was the injury…definitely something in the hand I remember)
How is Bill Wennington a smart, backup Center but Shaq is just completely washed up? Even a washed up Shaq is still better than a Wennington in his prime. Shaq is that good.
How do you say Jamison couldn’t shoot his jump shot well when he shot 48% from the field? this is the kind of statistical fact you are just loving to gloss over.
And how is Delonte Inconsistent on both sides? His 3 pointer was a little more inconsistent, but he had an off year with injuries and legal problems. He is a very consistent defender so he definitely wasn’t inconsistent on both sides.
Hickson was used fine, I just wish he was used more. He thrived last year when injuries came to our Centers and he started there.
oh…and Forgot Z who at this point coming off the bench was just as special as Kukoc. He is not as good of a passer as Kukoc but is still good. He also has been excellent shooting from 3 the last 2 years and is an excellent rebounder.
btw…
(VAREHAW, not VAREYJAW
wrong. They have taught the cleveland announcers how to say it and it is Vare-ah-zhao. Where are you getting ‘varehaw’ from?
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Haha what a clown.
The Bulls lost Jordan and not only won 55 games, they got better on defense.
And keep in mind they only added some offensive guys at best.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
No its not…but does that mean that the cavs will be terrible? NO. The cavs still have good players and did win 60 games last year. I am a realistic fan and I can’t see them winning more than 45 games or finishing higher than 6 or 7 in the east.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Hey, there's nothing wrong with rooting for the Cavs.
I understand that part.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. I do not think the cavs are at the same level as the Bulls without jordan, but people seem to be writing them off as a 20 win team before they step onto the court. even with a guy like lebron, teams don’t win 60 games by accident.
I went at looked at win shares…Now I do not know exactly how accurate the stat is, but I believe it is pretty accurate. I projected win shares for the cavs for next year based on the projections of how players are going to play compared to this past season. I also obviously took away Lebron’s, Shaq’s, and Zs win shares (but added some for having jamison a full season).
The cavs last year had 60.5 win shares, 24.1 from our trio of Free Agents. That puts the cavs right there at 36 win shares. Also, I believe JJ will improve significantly and his win shares I believe will increase about 2 and with Jamison a whole season, I see his win shares increasing by about 5.
So, based purely on win shares, a conservative estimate for the cavs may be between 40 and 42 wins, which is what I though they would do before I calculated this. That is not anything special but could be enough for a playoff spot.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
I appreciate Male Beauty
Jamison was very good against the Celtics?
Or Mo?
If they both struggle, the Cavs have no supporting cast.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 25, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha no
Shaq
Big Z
Jamison
Varejao
Hickson
West
Parker
James
Gibson
Telfair
Williams
Moon
Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.
by RA37thriller on Jul 26, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Uh ok, and this proves?
Everyone had negative statistical plus minus, except Varejao. Varejao at 20 minutes a game.
by agradecimiento a dios on Jul 30, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody is discussing the points about competitiveness, rivalries, and personal pride?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Jul 28, 2010 2:43 AM EDT reply actions

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