Starting the week off with a bevy of topics; Michael Jordan, Jamaal Magloire, Mike MIller and more...
by David Dwork on Jul 20, 2010 3:21 AM EDT
49 comments
A couple of things I want to touch on today, but first just want to mention again the resigning of Jamaal Magloire. Something that I thought of last night was how much effect Magloire, who Pat Riley called "a role model for our younger players", will have on Dexter Pittman. Already considered a locker room leader, the ‘big cat' has an opportunity to make a difference on the ‘big rookie'.
Pittman will likely only see time late in games when the Heat are up by 15-20 points, but there is a chance that could be once or twice a week. The rookie is already looked up to by many people due to him losing almost 100lbs during his 4-years at the University of Texas, but I'm hoping he'll embrace Magloire as a mentor considering that they both have great work ethics. I wouldn't be surprised to see Magloire taking Pittman under his wing starting with practices, and the more I think about this the more I like it.
Moving on, when I saw this next story I think I did a double take. As if the Heat weren't getting crap from enough places, now the greatest player ever has to chime in. My surprise isn't because of what he said or anything like that, but I guess it just took me a little off guard to hear the great Michael Jordan throwing his two cents into the ‘Miami LeBronica' situation. Said #23:
"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,' but that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."
Of course in hindsight he never thought that. He has six NBA championship rings. Knowing that he didn't need more help, why would he have wanted to share the spotlight with those superstars when everybody knows he didn't need to?
And he ‘was trying to beat those guys'? Last time I checked, he won the majority of his titles after ‘those guys' retired. So yeah...it's a nice thought Michael, and it makes you look real nice, but I'm not fooled. He made those comments not only ragging on what the Heat has done in free agency, but also tried to make himself and his ‘legacy' look better. And for what? He's Michael *bleeping* Jordan.
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, let's talk about another guy named Mike. Mike Miller is getting some ink after he had a conference call with members of the media on Monday. The main point that I got from the call was when he discussed what his role on the Heat will be. There is nothing specific set, other then that Miller is perfectly fine with coming off the bench.
"It'll probably be a role that I'll play and I have no problem with that. If we do go to that hybrid lineup, with LeBron, D-Wade and myself, I could relieve them of some ballhandling duties in bringing the ball up the court and allowing them to get in the pick-and-roll set without being worked the whole length of the floor."
The options are going to be endless with the pieces that Pat Riley has put into place around the big 3. Considering that our ‘complimentary' players are guys like Miller, Udonis Haslem and Zydrunas Ilgauskas, not to mention the returning Heat players like Mario Chalmers, Joel Anthony and James Jones (who I still think has a lot to offer), the versatility of this team is pretty significant.
I'll just quickly mention Dwyane Wade's World Trade Center comments because I feel like it's just another example of the public taking any and every opportunity to reflect negativity on the Heat. I know that you never ever want to reference or even mention something as horrible and tragic as what happened on 9-11-01, and Wade making that reference opened the door.
It sucks, but this is just something we'll have to get used to as Heat fans. As for Wade's comments...here is what he said, and I'll let you be the judge:
"We enjoy the bulls-eye. Of course, there's going to be times when we might lose one or two games in a row, maybe two games, three games in a row, you never know. It's going to seem like the world is crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade has just went down again. But it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games lost and we'll have to get back on track. So we're going to have fun with this season. We understand this dynamic doesn't come around too often and we're a lucky team right now."
Again, never want to make any reference, comment or comparison about something like that. Wade knows it, probably as soon as it came out of his mouth. Then, AOL's Fanhouse twisted around his comments, making it seem as though he said that if the team is losing ‘it will be like the World Trade Center is coming down again.'
They later corrected it but by then it was getting national attention. Wade quickly released this public statement of apology:
"In an interview yesterday, I attempted to explain how some people may view the Miami Heat losing a few basketball games in a row during the upcoming season. It appears that my reference to the World Trade Center has been either inaccurately reported or taken completely out of context. I was simply trying to say that losing a few basketball games should not be compared to a real catastrophe. While it was certainly not my intention, I sincerely apologize to anyone who found my reference to the World Trade Center to be insensitive or offensive."
So what do you guys think? Was this a story, or just a case of hating? It's a very sensitive subject and there are no wrong answers, I'm just curious as to how people think...because it's clear how I do.
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Definately a case of poor reporting – Wade was making the comment to put into perspective this exact sort of badly reported BS.
Journalists don’t need integrity anymore – it’s too easy to issue an apology or retraction later.
Whilst I’ll admit maybe Wade could have referenced something other than the WTC is it really to the point were it can’t even be said out aloud?
Other than that – Jordan is being Jordan, still the most competitive guy around when it comes to his legacy. It is his brilliance that has misguided the media into thinking one superstar can win a Championship… those looking into Championship teams know that is not the case. Lakers didn’t contend till they added a second all-star despite having Kobe on the roster. Barkley issued similar comments towards Lebron but it is a bit hypocritical coming from him considering that he jumped ship from Philly to Phoenix during his career…
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
by PsyKoMunKy on Jul 20, 2010 4:46 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this^^^
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official Kory Sheets clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
I respect Jordan and think he is the best player ever
But the league was different in his time. So, I don’t pay any mind to his comments. Also, I think Barkley should just shut up, he never won anything. He doesn’t have the right to talk. Lebron did what he did so he wouldn’t end up like Barkley.
Michael and Barkley are from the eighties.
The 80’s were about The Lakers and Celtics being loaded and everyone else, get you a superstar and build around him to challenge. In the interview, MJ said, “There’s no way, with hindsight, I would’ve ever called up Larry [Bird], called up Magic [Johnson] and said, ‘Hey, look, let’s get together and play on one team,’” Jordan said after playing in a celebrity golf tournament in Nevada. The interview aired on the NBC telecast of the event. “But that’s … things are different. I can’t say that’s a bad thing. It’s an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys.” I love how the media almost always leaves out the “But that’s … things are different. I can’t say that’s a bad thing. It’s an opportunity these kids have today.” part when bringing it up on TV or any other media outlet; this part explains that he understands things are different now and he might do the same thing they are doing if he played today. It is so much more controversial with the omission.
I love MJ
but I hate golf
People have a week dedicated to sharks, sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward, let's follow in the "footsteps" of the sharks.....
idiot!
first off: as you stated, magic and bird were well past their prime when MJ started winning championships. secondly: last time i checked MJ had pippen and, later, rodman. both hall-of-fame caliber players. take pippen out of the equation and MJ gets zero rings. he was, without a doubt, the greatest of all time, but it’s time he (and barkley) shut their damn mouths. athletes are forever getting criticized for only caring about the money and not winning – now here we have three of the best the modern era has produced going forward together in an effort to win, to win as a team…and they’re being ripped apart for it. haters. they all fear what we have put together. anyone with any kind of basketball IQ, who has ever seen these players play seperately, has come to this conclusion: this could be the scariest team to ever hit the hard wood. so there is jealousy and there is fear. and how does it hurt your legacy to be on (what has the very real potential to be) the greatest team ever? that’s what i thought!!!
1+3+6=5 rings
I think D-Wade got picked.
But MJ got a point. He did not say he beat Magic and Bird. He said, he said he was TRYING to beat them. That’s just the competitive MJ talking. So the writer should give MJ some slack.
Barkley does have a point. Miami is Wade’s team, not LeBron’s. LeBron may win his rings, but not at the same effect as how MJ won his. Thus, by joining the Heat, he sort of folded from taking on a Challenge. LeBron has the potential of being considered in the talks as the G.O.A.T. However, joining the Heat kind of discourages this chance, if not of it getting totally destroyed. By his own words, LeBron said he does not want the “pressure”, he sort of wants to take the easy way – by riding on D-Wade. Well, nothing wrong with it, it’s his choice.
In the end, though, we can never really tell. Let history be the judged of it all.
By the way, this is a Laker fan speaking. I’m disappointed that LeBron is not up to the challenge of being a worthy rival to Kobe by taking him head on, but nonetheless, I am excited on how this upcoming rivalry with the Heat would go. D-Wade vs. Kobe, then. LeBron is out as a worthy rival for Kobe.
kobe bryant=batman
Understand to a point but Kobe still had to have help – Lakers weren’t contending till Gasol arrived- if the team can’t bring it to you isn’t it fair enough for the player to go to the team best equipped to be a contender?
Not that I don’t agree with you – I think the media at least will raise the same questions for Lebron and Wade that they did with Kobe and Shaq that weren’t put to rest till the recent repeat by the Lakers.
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
If being "equipped" is the only reason, he should have chosen another team instead of the Heat
The Heat is not only an “equipped team” for LeBron, but already a “guarantee team” for him to win a ring (if not next season, the following seasons). If LeBron wanted the challenge on leading a team of better caliber than his Cavs (though, for the record, I’m sick of “Kobe has the better supporting cast than LeBron” argument, which is unfair) to beat Kobe’s Lakers, he would have chosen New York – which could prepare the necessary caliber team for him in a year – or New Jersey – which could almost immediately prepare it for him – or Chicago – which already have the necessary supporting cast. He would be the Man of that team and would have a better supporting cast than what he had with the Cavs. Of course, the challenge for him is to lead that team. But he did not want to take the challenge. Instead, he went to Miami for a dominating guarantee of a ring. Again, there’s nothing wrong with his decision (just the douchebag manner he did it), it’s his legacy and career anyway, he can do what he wants with it. But it is only appropriate that his status as a self-proclaimed King would be discounted. And this kind of opinions by people connected to the NBA (e.g. MJ) has basis and value. He can’t be a King without leading and winning anything. His decision is an admission on the fact that he can’t beat Kobe on his own. He might win the championship but not as the same manner as when Kobe and MJ and Magic and Bird and Russel, and even Wade, won theirs. Thus, if he does not want to be the Man, it is only right he play the part of a Pippen instead of a Jordan. “He’ll never be Jordan,” as Barkley said. D-Wade has more right than LeBron to be called King, since he had already led the Heat to a championship, proving that he can be up to the challenge.
kobe bryant=batman
The only time
Kobe was the best player on the Lakers was after Shaq and before Pau. If his fingers weren’t mangled, things might be different.
duh. that opinion would be either naive or arrogant (or you're joking, which I have no way of telling)
NBA insiders (players, coaches, officials, GMs), plus most fans and media people, doesn’t think so. And since they (insiders) definitely are more credible and knows the game better than you, or me, well, hate to sound harsh, but your opinion to discount Kobe against Shaq and Pau is silly.
I might give you that during Shaq’s time in the Lakers, Kobe is just second best, though not all the time. There are times Kobe had to carry Shaq, too (e.g. playoff series prior to Finals). As a Laker fan who watched the Lakers play, probably more than you do (since you watch the Heat), I can say the Shaq-Kobe tandem was actually a partnership of equals rather than a Main Man-Sidekick duo.
But with Pau?! Come on, man. You should know better than that. Really as an NBA fan, you really think so? Pau is a great player, but before going to the Lakers, nobody really appreciates his talents much. Plus, he’s the main man on the grizzlies, thus the oppositions concentration and pressure is on him. The Lakers, however, is Kobe’s team. The only reason Pau shines in the Laker system is because most of the pressure is on Kobe, and not on him. Thus, Kobe’s presence creates plays and better opportunities for Pau. There is a reason why the double to triple teams of the Celtics was on Kobe and not on Pau during the Finals.
kobe bryant=batman
Obviously, Kobe’s great. I do think Shaq in his prime was better than Kobe, but you’ve conceded that.
For Pau, there are obviously many ways to measure it. Here’s Hollinger’s regular season and post-season stats last year
Pretty much a dead heat last year between those two. And that’s with Kobe taking on average twice as many shots as Pau. So Pau is being productive without the offense running through him.
There’s also Kobe’s impossible to justify reputation as a clutch shooter. This sample…
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
…only goes through ‘09 season, but Kobe’s pretty abysmal at last second shots. 25% is basically shooting with your eyes closed. Kobe’s tendency to miss this stuff was evidenced this Playoffs in Artest and Pau’s put-backs.
Now, I’m just stirring the pot. The argument that Pau is better can only barely be made, but a stronger argument is that they are extremely, extremely close in terms of value. But I really do tire of the Kobe love. He’s great. Really great. One of the top 10 players ever, most likely. But even in that rarefied air, people still manage to overrate him.
Stats actually don't impress me as much as how I see a player plays in a game
Especially Kobe Bryant. Statistically-speaking, his stats are not that awesome. But what Kobe does is not measured by stats. Sometimes, stats are unfair for him.
Stats has some help, but I am one of those people that don’t think stats are the true and final measurements in basketball. It’s still too complicated to be “statisticised” completely. Just like Isaac Asimov’s psychohistory.
I’m not really an expert on the triangle offense, but believe me that Pau’s stats are created by Kobe’s offense. I can try to explain but it would take so long. But Kobe has to take more shots than Pau. He has to create his own shot, most of the time. It’s not that easy to just give more balltouches to Pau. Guards have to set-up the Bigs. Kobe creates his shots. Pau has to get position and have Kobe draw the perimeter defense on him to at least give Pau less pressure. That’s just how Guard-Big Man relationship works. You don’t see Big Men driving from behind the arc to the paint to get their high percentage shots. Big Men get high percentage FG because they have to score closer to the basket. Perimeter players like Kobe does jump shots, especially the kind of defense a guy like Kobe receives, which has lower FG percentage. As you watch basketball longer, you get this, that stats help, but stats sometimes misleads and does not tell the whole story. Pau is an awesome player, but, really, come on, with an objective mind, and if you do really understand basketball, you really think he’s better than Kobe? I mean, really? You think they should just give Pau the ball most of the time? Even when he’s not in position? Think about it, man.
Again, Magic, MJ, Bird, and others knows the game better than we do. Magic and Brid, several times, had already said that Kobe is the best right now. MJ said that Kobe is better than LeBron. They did not talk about Pau, they talked about Kobe. Thus, they saw something in Kobe that stats can’t measure.
kobe bryant=batman
Meh
And there are just as many if not more knowledgeable people who will tell you the Lakers won the title because no one could match up with their size. Because they have 3 excellent seven-footers, the best of which was Pau. Kobe benefited from Pau’s size as much as Pau benefited from Kobe’s occasional double-teams.
Anyway, I realize I don’t actually care about this. If you love Kobe’s game, enjoy.
Kobe once said if he wanted to, he could easily score 40 a night. Although he doesn’t because it wouldn’t help his team win. I tend to take him at his word.
Also, there are sometimes 5 or 6 minute stretches where Kobe makes impossible shot after impossible shot and it’s astounding to watch even if you’re rooting against him. Like in the 3rd quarter of 2010 Finals Game 5. Probably his finest moment in the 2010 Finals, although it was in a loss.
Anyway, my whole point is that while Kobe’s great, I don’t agree with the image that Kobe is some kind of lone wolf. Or that LeBron is making it too easy for himself playing with Wade. If that were true, then why does everyone still say the Lakers are the team to beat?
If everyone thinks that the Heat made a superteam that deprives them of any challenge, fine. But then admit that the Heat are the favorites. You can’t have it both ways.
I think what they mean is...
…eventually, with talents like D-Wade and LeBron, the Heat would EVENTUALLY win a championship in their run in Miami. The potential is there. So the Heat might not win next season, but they would probably eventually would in the next years.
And the Lakers is still the team to beat the next season, because they are the defending champs. And defending champs already have a proven formula on an incoming season.
No contradictions at all.
As for the other arguments:
a)
Kobe benefited from Pau’s size as much as Pau benefited from Kobe’s occasional double-teams.
Of course, it’s true. That’s just how it should be. They’re a combo. But that point does not make Pau better than Kobe. Kobe achieved more as a leader of a crappy Laker team, than with Pau as the leader of the Grizz.
Kobe knows and appreciates how great Pau is. Kobe does not gloat that he does it all alone, he gives credits to his teammates, especially Pau. Pau is “the greatest big man today”, Kobe said so. It’s just silly to think that Pau is better than Kobe when Pau never really achieved anything without Kobe, while Kobe already made a name for himself before Pau.
b)
Because they have 3 excellent seven-footers…
Uh, excuse me, you are talking about Mbenga? excellent? Come on.
Or you’re probably talking about Kobe who can grow a few feet to transform himself into Hakeem Olajuwon. Makes sense. But that’s still Kobe.
c)
Anyway, my whole point is that while Kobe’s great, I don’t agree with the image that Kobe is some kind of lone wolf.
He’s not. He’s the Black Mamba.
Again, he does not say that he won titles without help. He credits his supporting cast. Wolves hunts in packs.
The point is Kobe is ready to face and accept failure and responsibility, as a leader. And the media (Kobe is probably the most hated athlete in the history of the game) always makes sure of that. Kobe is not afraid of the pressure, of facing and rising up to the challenge, of taking on the competition.
LeBron rid himself of that by joining the Heat. After hyping himself as the King and Chosen One and all that. An excerpt from Jeff Lambert’s article:
But Miami? Really?
A city without incredible legacy (Chicago). A city without tremendous pressure (New York). A city without an inherent need to win (Cleveland).
He chose Miami: The city that is happiest with a bottle of rum in their hand and a gram of blow in their pocket. The city of Miami will never need LeBron to win the way Cleveland did. I mean, when it’s 75 degrees and sunny in February you have more to worry about than whether or not the Heat won last night. Don’t get me wrong, if LeBron and Co. win then it will certainly be a hell of a party. But if they lose? No big deal, everyone knows Miami is a Dolphins town anyway.
But most important, and the loudest voice in my head saying "no way he goes to Miami", is above all else, Miami is Dwayne Wade’s team. No way LeBron goes to a team where he can’t ever be the man, right?
But I had to keep in mind, much like his ESPN dog and pony show, his decision was the easy way out. It’s the option with the least amount of risk. Think about it. Wade has been there the longest. Wade has the relationship with the city and fans. Wade has all the pressure to deliver in crunch time. All of which leads us to believe that Wade, not LeBron, will be the one to take the brunt of the criticism if they lose.
This frees up LeBron to do exactly what he wants to do: coast through games, wow the fans with his athleticism, ball it up with his boys, dance around when they win, and most of all, deflect the blame when they lose.
kobe bryant=batman
Yes, Odom is only 6'10"
I see you are willing to pay attention numbers when they suit you.
I can’t quite tell what point you’re trying to make. Are you saying Kobe takes last second shots? Yes, I agree. He takes more than anyone in the league. And he’s awful at it, as I’ve already pointed out.
In fact, in the last week of the season, Pau even questioned why Kobe takes all the last second shots. And a few games later, Phil made Pau take a last second shot, which he missed, as if to put him in his place. But the discontent is there. Mid season, when Kobe did make one, Phil said “great, I wish he’d make more of them.”
I don’t care that Kobe believes it’s his team. I don’t care that he wants to take the last shot. I don’t care that you see him as an alpha dog. I don’t care that you think he is fearless. I don’t care that he won’t cooperate in post-game interviews except to say “gotta win next game.”
I care that people think he is the best in the league, and his numbers aren’t even close.
I guess I’ll have to accept that you quoting Kobe saying Pau is “the greatest big man today” is as close as I’ll come to you admitting that Pau is as valuable as Kobe.
As for LeBron, at the least he’ll be young when Wade gets old and will be the undisputed stats leader at some point. But that’s at the least. Next season isn’t written yet. We’ll see exactly what plays out. Wade is very accommodating. He was the best player in Beijing, but he didn’t complain that Kobe started at 2.
And, granted he didn’t have his stats hurt by playing on the Dream Team, but guess who’s at the top of the stats heap for all players in Beijing?
Kobe is in 2 because he's the best perimeter defender of the team
If you read Woj’s article, LeBron was the “black sheep” of that team.
“I see you are willing to pay attention numbers when they suit you.” As if I manipulate stats to suit my arguments. I think that’s unfair. How should I know it was Odom you were talking about? Mbenga was the 3rd 7-footer, and you said 7-footer. And how does that relate to me shunning statistics (though I already said that stat has some merits, just that it’s not the complete story, thus I do not completely say that ALL stats are worthless)? How could that be my fault when you considered Odom as a 7-footer? Out of context again. Please do be reasonable.
You are probably a Kobe-hater. So no matter what good points I had to present, you will not be dissuaded. I understand. I have to respect that. Fans will always have individual opinions that can’t be changed. So I will not go on rambling about Kobe’s greatness trying to convince you he’s better than Gasol (and LeBron)… after these last three paragraphs…
D-Wade was the clear best player in the Olympics, but Kobe is definitely the leader. Even D-Wade would admit to that. Plus, the game for the gold against Spain was clearly Kobe’s game, wasn’t it? Kobe gave a hell of an impression to both D-Wade and LeBron when Kobe joined Team USA. And Pau is of course on top of the list you gave since he’s the only NBA All-Star in Team Spain. Duh. It is given he should dominate most. Pau is awesome, but, come on, he is not better than Kobe. Maybe in the future, as Kobe starts to age.
As for the winning shots, I forgot to point at that a while ago, of course Kobe has a low percentage on last shots because he had taken a lot of them – he is not afraid of the pressure of missing – but against that many attempts, he has the most gamewinners over anybody in the league. The mentality is there. Cool under pressure.
For the last time, when people like Magic and Bird and MJ (as well as most of the coaches. players, and GMs) talk of Kobe as being the best today, we could be pretty sure they know what they are talking about. They are definitely more knowledgeable over us in basketball, aren’t they? Of course, we can think otherwise. It is our right to have opinions. All of us. But of course their (the legends) opinion would have more force because they are more credible. We will have our opinions, but who are we to to contradict those guys’ opinions?
kobe bryant=batman
miami heat will be the center of discussions..
everyone’s just tryin to say somethin to be relevant. MJ is my man. he is the reason why i know basketball. but just every time he did somethin besides playin basketball messess his name up. yeah yeah he would never team up with magic,bird etc etc at that time but if he did not have his supporting cast all through out his career (pippen/rodman,etc) he would end up just like lebron in cavs 7yrs and no title or more and that won’t cement his legacy in basketball. he may never be the best there is if he didn’t got any ring.
same to barkley,i think he’s just jealous he didn’t had this kind of opportunity back on his basketball days. sure this is d-wade’s team.. even LBJ won’t argue with that. but can’t u just see, they sacrificed those selfishness to win a title. they swallowed their ego. i mean garnett got the 3rd place in mvp voting in 08 and wen they won the tittle pierce got it and they all just cherish the moment. did anyone complain?do they really need to make this of a big deal? they wanted to be the greatest team in basketball history and that will solidify their glory to the highest. the first true dynasty since the 60’s..
and on that I’m disappointed that Lebron is not up to the challenge of being a worthy rival to Kobe by taking him head on, i just laughed all the way.. it’s like i’m hearin a bunch of shakin cats that still says we’r not afraid.. well guess what,they are afraid, they are intimidated, and whoop their a** and that’s the bottom line.
and oh,almost forgot. as of d-wade’s words, i can’t see why everyone’s makin it this big. i mean to react like that,it’s just too shallow. hope everyone could just see what he really mean.
capabilities has limit, effort is unlimited..
actually lakerdom is not afraid of LeBron joining the Heat
check out my link on the post you commented on. (Or maybe you did, since you used a Stone Cold catchphrase)
so, you laugh, but did no present any concrete rebuttal on “I’m disappointed that Lebron is not up to the challenge of being a worthy rival to Kobe by taking him head on.” It should be true because it’s MY disappointment, not yours, and I should know since it is MINE, right? Thus, assuming that it’s because of being scared is fallacious. I really really wanted LeBron to be a Bird to Kobe’s Magic.
If you actually read what I posted above, I have no problem on a Big 3 on the Heat at all. We could say it is “unselfish”, which is true, but this being “unselfish” is still a way to take away the pressure on himself (LeBron). Which is my point. LeBron want an easy way out. LeBron SAID IT HIMSELF that he does not like the pressure of carrying a team (not in that way, but substance over form). Yup, KG won his championship, but is it the same effect if he had won it in Minnesotta? No, of course not. KG won his championship, but not in a Tim Duncan-way. You get the point? Oh, yeah, also, during his peak, Garnett did his best for the T-wolves, and had only joined a Big 3-nucleus when he was nearly on his downside, so the KG-LeBron analogy argument is void since it’s different circumstance – LeBron is in his peak, not in the “nearly downside” category.
Thus, LeBron would be a legend, but not in an “MJ legend” way or" D-Wade legend" or “Kobe legend” way, maybe in a “Moses Malone-legend” way(he won MVP and all, but the Sixers is still Dr. J’s team) or “Pippen-legend way.” I’m just saying that MJ and Barkley, jealousy or no jealousy, have points that LeBron’s legacy will not have the same GOATish effect as MJ’s. It is true. There is nothing wrong with LBJ joining the Heat, but it’s clearly about wanting to win a title the easy way – again, nothing wrong with it. But pretending that winning as leader for Cleveland with winning as D-Wade’s super sidekick has the same effect is wrong. Again, Kobe’s championship has a different impact than the (Celtics) Big 3’s championship. Are any of the Celtics being in the talks with being the best ever?
kobe bryant=batman
Lakers vs Heat is a great matchup – should be fun.
Anyway, I think alot of this thinking still stems from the fact that this is a superstar-hyped league – not to take anything away from Kobe but despite his greatness he doesn’t win the last 2 years without Pau – Wade doesn’t win in 06 without Shaq.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, does it diminish Kobe’s championship because Pau was alongside him? He obviously didn’t do it prior to his arrival.
I understand the adage of having the superstar stay true to his original team – I would’ve preferred in that regard for Lebron to stay in Cleveland for him to earn the legacy everyone wanted to give him, but, as a player I think there would be just as much incentive to leave a team unable to get over the hump or risk ending up like Malone/Stockton…(despite Malone’s last ditch effort with LA)
I still think the quality of his basketball on the court should define his status ultimately – Similarly for someone like Karl Malone who because he never won it all seems to be regarded as a footnote now, realistically he is one of the greatest PF’s of all time yet whenever his name is mentioned nowadays it seems to be due to his lack of a ring.
I think this is probably as big a motivator for changing teams as much as a “legacy” is for staying put…
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
Let Josh Tucker's words be the last in this matter
And this one, too
http://www.lakersnation.com/the-decision-to-accept-second-best/2010/07/19/3/
kobe bryant=batman
Agree with most of the sentiments in these articles – but still – I don’t think we can easily dismiss the rest of his career that hasn’t even happened yet.
So far he isn’t close to be considered amongst the greats – prior to him joining Miami I felt the same way, but I still think it’s too early to categorise where he sits all time – whilst this decision will lengthen the gap between him and the greats, he is only 25yo…
Same for Kobe and Wade – need to evaluate their whole career – it’s too early to anoint their “positioning” in regards to MJ, Larry and Magic yet.
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
But Kobe and D-Wade (especially Kobe) is QUALIFIED to be on the talks on being "positioned" on that ranks
LeBron disqualified himself. Which there is nothing wrong with it. It’s his career decision. But he has to adjust his attitude. As Tucker wrote in the last part:
At the end of the day, I have no problem with accepting LeBron’s decision, and even celebrating his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something truly special. Those are two very valid and worthwhile goals. But accepting that decision comes with two qualifiers: First, it removes him from the conversation of greatest player, either of the present or of all time; and second, LeBron James needs to adopt an attitude commensurate with his career path.
Remember our earlier analogy? The balanced worker shouldn’t be criticized for having different goals and priorities – but he doesn’t get to act like the CEO.
So when you’re debating this issue, keep in mind that there are several distinctly different aspects of LeBron’s decision, each of which much be treated differently. The way he handled it was despicable and disgusting. The decision he made, from a basketball perspective, has forever changed how we evaluate him as a player and how we will view his legacy. That said, there’s no reason that his decision to follow a career path that removes him from all of the “Greatest Player” conversations should be seen as wrong or bad, and in fact, his desire to play with his friends and be a part of something special and unique is just as valid and worthwhile as the obsessive, ultra-competitive desire to lead one’s own team to victory (and probably more healthy). None of those perspectives stand in conflict with one another. However, he must adjust his attitude to be consistent with the player he has decided to be.
kobe bryant=batman
Agree – although Kobe and Wade can be “positioned” there now – and although I still believe they are better basketball players (not athletes) than Lebron, I don’t think he can be automatically removed from discussions in 5-10 years from now.
For now though – his “legacy” has taken a decent hit… and as much as he frustrated me the last few years (more than any other player) I truly hope we see a different Lebron on the court. One ready to be a basketball player rather than someone getting by on talent, ego and “birthright”. If he does achieve that we can’t discount his oncourt contributions because of who is playing alongside of him.
Tough for me to try and be positive on the guy – I’m a Wade fan through and through…
"Great effort springs naturally from great attitude" - Pat Riley
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships" - Michael Jordan
Wade was def. misquoted.
oh and MJ needs to shut him arrogant mouth. Its okay though when its all said in done I hope the haters are stilling hating, because then we’ll be lifting our 1st title since 06 and many many more to come.
"Not 2, Not 3, Not 4, Not 5, Not 6, Not 7, and when I say that really believe. I'm about business and I believe we can win multiple championships" - LeBron James
Some of the Heat Haters I no wer saying oo look wat DWade said now and I was like look at the article the media changed it all the way around
Now with tht said SIGN J Will
SCALP'EM
2010 New Beginning in Tallahassee
Ponder for Heisman'10
RIP John Wooden
by Thunder64 on Jul 20, 2010 10:34 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Kareem, Worthy, Scott
McHale, Parish, DJ, Pippen, Grant, Rodman…
These are the guys (many of them on the Top 50 list) who Jordan just threw under the bus so he could make himself look good.
The Heat are going to get the single-season wins records and be considered the greatest team ever, and it chaps Jordan’s hide.
gettin sick..
do we really need to compare every great player to MJ?? and do great players only aspire kobe as their rivals? _
capabilities has limit, effort is unlimited..
by iamne0 on Jul 20, 2010 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official Kory Sheets clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
Wade’s original comment is fine, he’s not saying HE thinks it will be like 9/11, he was saying he thinks the MEDIA will blow it out of proportion. And i think he’s right, the media pretty much proved his point by how they ran with his quote.
As for MJ, the guy annoys me, he is widely considered to be the GOAT, why the hell does he feel he has to defend himself like that. Michael, it’s over, you’re the best there ever was and the best there ever will be, bitter passive-aggressive comments like this and your HOF speech are totally unnecessary.
And about Miller, I really like the guy (althought I’m a little annoyed my gf thinks he and Wade are “cute”) seems like a great team player and the fact that he is close with Haslem and Lebron tells me this team will have great chemistry. And while it’s great that he has no problem coming off the bench I hope he doesn’t have to, still think the best route to take is Miller starting along with Lebron and Wade.
#1 LBJ and A-Rod fan
Haters gonna hate.
Funny Jordan is forgetting he called Barkley to come out of retirement to play on the Wizards
So rule of thumb: be old and sh*tty then do it
Wanna prove you are a true heatfan? Remind people you lived through the Mark Blount era
Mikie Miller:
Hollar at your boy and get J Dubb to South Beach son!! U of F reunion! + D Wade wants his skills on the floor as well. Y’all go over to his casa and kidnap him if you have to~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by Kenny F'ing Powers on Jul 20, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions
juwan has signed with the heat!
carlos arroyo is next. that leaves two spots. i had a dream last night that we signed j-dubb and AI. all in favor of grabbing williams, but the iverson part left me shaking. who’s left out there? stackhouse, eddie house and penny hardaway? dooling and barnes are off the board. has july ever been this exciting? i mean unless you’re a fan of MLB or NASCAR.
1+3+6=5 rings
hooray!
now we just need white chocolate
"I am happy, that's just the saddest lie."
-Kid Cudi
by FalconFiend93 on Jul 20, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
Am not to crazy about him.
Yea he can give you 7 and 7 off the bench but he gets garbage minutes at best.
He likely is a cheer leader unless Haslem or Bosh goes down for a while.
I would rather develop Garet Siler than to sign another pension player.
Now Resign J Will and Rasual Butler!
I do not want Arroyo back on this team.
Resign J Will damnit!
Resign Rasual Butler!
Develop Garet Siler!
by thedeeofdees on Jul 20, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
there you go!
assuming arroyo will sign tomorrow, that leaves two available spots on the roster. williams and butler sounds good to me!!!
1+3+6=5 rings
Wade's comments were overblown
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
""It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress"
by Patssuck456 on Jul 23, 2010 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
^this
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." -John Wooden
"Only perfect practice makes perfect." -Vince Lombardi
"A Champion needs a motivation above and beyond winning." -Pat Riley
"Fall seven times. Stand up eight." -from D-Wade's Converse Ad Campaign
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